Part 73

Socr. Do you not know that you said the good are good, through the presence of good things, and the bad through the presence of evil things? And that pleasures are good things, and pains evil?

Cal. I did.

Socr. Are not, therefore, good things, viz., pleasures, present with those that rejoice, if they do rejoice?

Cal. Undoubtedly.

Socr. And since good things are present are not they who rejoice good?

Cal. Yes.

Socr. But what? Are not evil things, viz., pains, present with those that suffer pain?

Cal. They are present.

Socr. But do you not say that the bad are bad, through the presence of evil things? Or do you say so no longer?

Cal. I do.

Socr. Those, therefore, that rejoice, are good; but those that suffer pain are bad?

Cal. Certainly.

Socr. And those that are more so, more, but those that are less so, less? and those that are equally so, equally?

Cal. Yes.

Socr. Do you not say, then, that the wise and the foolish, cowards and the brave, rejoice and grieve in an equal degree, or cowards even more?

Cal. I do.

117. Socr. Now in common with me, draw the inferences that result from these admissions. For, they say, it is beautiful to repeat and consider beautiful things twice, and even thrice. We say, that the prudent and brave man is good; do we not?

Cal. Yes.

Socr. But that the foolish man and a coward is bad?

Cal. Certainly.

Socr. Again, that he who rejoices is good?

Cal. Yes.

Socr. And that he who suffers pain is bad?

Cal. Necessarily so.

Socr. And that the good and the bad suffer pain and rejoice equally, but perhaps the bad more?

Cal. Yes.

Socr. Therefore, the bad man becomes equally bad and good, with the good man, or even more good? Do not these results follow, as well as the former ones, if one says that the pleasant and the good are the same? Are not these consequences necessary, Callicles?

Cal. I have been long listening to you, Socrates, and making concessions, considering with myself that if any one grants you any thing, even in jest, you seize it eagerly as boys do. And can you suppose that I or any other person in the world does not believe that some pleasures are better, and others worse?