Part 167

Euth. I do not follow your questions, Socrates.

Socr. And yet you are younger no less than wiser than I am; but, as I said, you are too delicate through abundance of wisdom. However, my blessed friend, exert yourself; for it is not difficult to understand what I mean. For I mean the contrary to what the poet said, who wrote, “You are unwilling to mention Jove the creator who made this universe: for where fear is there is also shame.” I, however, differ from this poet. Shall I tell you in what respect?

Euth. By all means.

Socr. It does not appear to me, that where fear is there is also shame. For there appear to me to be many who fearing diseases, poverty, and many other things of the kind, fear indeed but are by no means ashamed of what they fear. Does it not appear so to you?

Euth. Certainly.

Socr. But wherever shame is, there is also fear: for is there any one who is ashamed of and blushes at any thing, that is not afraid of and does not fear the reputation of baseness?

Euth. Assuredly he does fear it.

Socr. It is not right, therefore, to say, that where fear is, there also is shame, but where shame is, there also is fear; not however, wherever there is fear, there is also shame. For I think that fear is more extensive than shame; for shame is a part of fear, as the odd is a part of number, so that it does not follow that wherever number is, there also is the odd, but wherever the odd is, there also is number. Do you follow me now?

Euth. Perfectly.

Socr. I asked you, then, about a thing of this kind above, whether where the just is, there also is the holy, or where the holy is, there also is the just, but wherever the just is, here is not always the holy: for the holy is a part of the just. Shall we say thus, or does it seem to you otherwise?

Euth. No, but thus. For you appear to me to speak correctly.

14. Socr. Observe then what follows. If the holy is a part of the just, it is necessary, as it seems, that we should find out what part of the just the holy is. If then you were to ask me about some of the things before mentioned, for instance, what part of number the even is, and what number it is, I should say that it is not scalene, but isosceles. Does it not appear so to you?

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Footnote 165:

That is, it can be divided into equal parts, which the odd cannot.

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Euth. It does.

Socr. Do you, then, also endeavour in like manner to teach me what part of the just the holy is, that I may tell Melitus no longer to treat me unjustly nor indict me for impiety, since I have now sufficiently learnt from you what things are pious and holy, and what not.

Euth. That part of justice then, Socrates, appears to me to be pious and holy, which is concerned about our care for the gods; but that which is concerned about our care for mankind is the remaining part of justice.

15. Socr. You appear to me, Euthyphron, to speak well; but I still require a trifle further. For I do not yet understand what care you mean. For you surely do not mean such care is to be had for the gods as is employed about other things. For we say, for instance, not every one knows how to take care of horses, but a groom; do we not?

Euth. Certainly.

Socr. For surely the groom’s business is the taking care of horses.

Euth. Yes.

Socr. Nor does every one know how to take care of dogs, but a huntsman.

Euth. Just so.

Socr. For the huntsman’s business is the taking care of dogs.

Euth. Yes.

Socr. And the herdsman’s of cattle.