Part 123

Q. Were you frequently together?

A. Very frequently; when I first went over to the rules of the Bench, I lodged with Mr. De Berenger in the same house for about one month, till I took a house of my own.

Q. Had you at any time any conversation with Captain De Berenger previous to the 21st of February with respect to Lord Cochrane and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

A. Towards the end of January I think, or perhaps the beginning of February.

Q. What was the substance of these conversations?

A. It happened one Sunday between one and two o'clock, Mr. Harrison called upon me, and we were conversing about a pamphlet he was writing.

Q. That Mr. Harrison was writing?

A. Yes; it was relative to the trial between Mr. Basil Cochrane and Mr. Harrison.

Q. That impressed the day upon your recollection?

A. Yes.

Q. Did Captain De Berenger come in that day?

A. Yes; he came in during the conversation and joined in it.

Q. Did any thing pass from Captain De Berenger on that day respecting Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane?

A. I at that time knew he was employed by Mr. Cochrane Johnstone.

Q. From whom did you understand that?

A. From Mr. De Berenger himself, that he was employed by Mr. Cochrane Johnstone in planning out a small piece of ground behind his house in Alsop's Buildings.

Q. What passed at that time about Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?

A. He mentioned that there was a transaction going on.

Q. Does the circumstance of the pamphlet bring back to your recollection what Sunday it was?

A. I cannot state the day of the month, but it was towards the end of January or the beginning of February.

Q. State what Mr. De Berenger then said?

A. He said that they had a plan in view----

A. Who had?

A. That De Berenger had, with Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane, that provided it succeeded, it would put many thousand pounds in the pocket of Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane.

Q. Upon hearing this, did either you or Mr. Harrison ask Captain De Berenger what the plan was?

A. I did, and he declined answering it; I said, "is it the plan with regard to Ranelagh which it was proposed to build in Alsop's Buildings, on Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's land," and he said "no, it is not, it is a far better plan."

Q. Did you collect from Mr. De Berenger's conversation with you, whether there was any particular intimacy between him and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane?

A. I knew there was a very particular intimacy between him and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, but I did not understand it was with Lord Cochrane at all; I understood he was a more recent acquaintance.