Part 221

FRIDAY, June 5.

Protection of South-western Frontier.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to the bill, entitled "An act for the more effectual protection of the South-western frontier settlers."

Mr. GILES expressed the utmost surprise at such a proposal. First, it had been projected to raise a standing army of fifteen thousand men, then twenty-five thousand, then ten thousand; and now, when all these schemes had been put to an end, this regiment of eleven hundred and forty men has appeared. Proteus never assumed a greater number of shapes than this attempt has done. His jealousy was highly excited by such a steady adherence to an idea so extremely offensive. The people of the United States did not wish to be trodden down by a Continental army. How this amendment might sit on the stomachs of some people, he could not say; but, if he were one of the gentlemen who represented the people from whom the requisition for defence had come, the amendment of the Senate would sit very badly indeed upon his stomach.

Mr. NICHOLAS said, that a bill had been wanted to protect the frontiers, but, by this amendment, the bill would scourge them. He wondered at the pertinacity of some people, in adhering to the idea of a standing army. Mr. N. enlarged considerably on the question before the House.

Mr. MCDOWELL had lived long on the frontiers, and he believed that he understood, from personal experience, what was the proper mode of defending them, as well as perhaps any gentleman on that floor. He was against the amendment, because he knew, from repeated experiments, that regular troops were, in this kind of service, altogether useless. The militia of the frontiers, who knew the country, and whose habits of life made them perfectly acquainted with the character of the enemy whom they had to encounter, were the only proper forces to oppose the Indians with success. But why Government should burden itself with a useless expense, or the people with a kind of defence which they disliked, Mr. McD. did not know. Perhaps there was no part of the Union that had behaved so prudently and so pacifically as the citizens on the South-western frontiers. Yet Indian treaties were constantly broken by the savages themselves. Gentlemen who had never been witnesses to the scene, did not feel it, with adequate comprehension or sensibility. A man went to his corn-field, along with his son, who was shot dead by his side. He came home, and found his wife and the rest of his family murdered. Circumstances of this kind, and of which Mr. McD. drew an affecting picture, were too dreadful for human patience to support.

Mr. BOUDINOT thought that the militia could not be kept together for six months, and that it was better to have regular troops.

Mr. AMES replied to Mr. GILES. It was wrong to say that this was part of a system, and that the twenty-five thousand men had been part of it. He saw no such thing. We have one Indian war already, which is enough at a time. Those whom we are now to quarrel with, are three times more numerous than those to the North-west. The Creeks, Cherokees, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, were, as Mr. A. had been informed, fifteen thousand fighting men. He did not think that there were too many Indians on the frontier, any more than too many wild beasts. The one might, by skilful management, be rendered as harmless as the other. Even the success of an Indian war, by extending our frontier, augments the number of our enemies; so that the task is hopeless, and has no end. Distance from the seat of Government would increase, and with it the charges of defence. He was not one of those who wished to exterminate these poor creatures. He recommended a system of restraint on both sides. He could wish for something as strong as the Chinese wall to separate them. When an exasperated militia went out, what were we to expect, but that the first man with a red skin whom they met would be shot? Presently you discover that you have been shooting an Indian of the wrong nation, while, in the mean time, this whole nation rises and attacks you. The Continental troops, as being less exasperated, were less apt to fall into mistakes of this kind. He did not wish the militia to be called out in such numbers as were proposed by the bill when sent up to the Senate. He wished, if possible, for a restraint on both parties. He was for the amendment.

Mr. MURRAY was of the same opinion. It was not once in ten times that, when an Indian was killed by a white man, the murderer could be convicted. As to the standing army being an object of alarm, he ridiculed that idea. But, at any rate, it was possible to limit the operations of this regiment of eleven hundred and forty men to the South-western frontier, if gentlemen were afraid of their being marched up and down the country.

Mr. GILLON said, that there was something in this question, just like that some days since, about the galleys. If you do not want them, they shall not be forced upon you. He could not see their use in South Carolina. It was a body of militia that was wanted. There are no tumults in South Carolina to be repressed by a standing army. The expedition against Spain is knocked up. What occasion, then, can there be for them? He feared that this corps was only a part of the old leaven, the gilding of a bad pill He liked this proposal better than the others of the same sort, only because, as the numbers are inferior, the evils are less. Mr. G. had no idea of hiring other people to do for us what we can do for ourselves. He had voted against the twenty-five thousand men, and the ten thousand, and he should also vote against the present number.

Mr. MADISON said, that he would not enter at large into this subject, but there was one circumstance in the business which struck him as very strange. It was proposed to raise a new corps, at a bounty of twenty dollars. The present army wanted more than the whole number of this corps to fill up its deficiencies, and yet the proposal for completing them had been rejected. Thus are we to be at the expense of supporting the skeleton of an army. Was it not better to fill up the old corps, than to put ourselves to the inconvenience of raising a new one?

Mr. MCDOWELL rose to correct what had fallen from Mr. AMES, as to the strength of the Indian nations on the South-western frontier. The Choctaws and Chickasaws are, and always have been, friends to the white people, and ready to fight for them. The Creeks and Cherokees do not, at the most, extend to more than seven or eight thousand men.

Mr. CARNES.--The only use that Continental troops can be of is to defend posts; and it has been found, by the experience of several years, that posts do more mischief than service. They are established at a distance of fifteen or twenty miles from each other. The Indian parties slip in between them; and the frontier settlers, depending on the protection of the regulars, are not, as they otherwise would be, upon their guard against the savages. The consequence is, that they are frequently murdered; while the only service performed by the Continentals is, that when the militia pursue the Indians, they are prevented by the former from crossing what is called the line. That is the whole service which they have performed in Georgia. In short, against the Creeks, they are good for nothing. Mr. C. wished that gentlemen would frankly say, once for all, that the Georgians did not deserve protection, and then the State would know what was to be done. He insisted on it, that, in Georgia, there were improper leanings in favor of the Indians. He referred to some persons in office, whom he specified. He believed sincerely that the Senate imagined themselves to be acting for the best; but they could not be such competent judges as persons on the spot. Within the last seven years, there has not been a single instance of an Indian killed by a white man, unless when the Indians themselves began the quarrel. During the last ten or twelve years, there had been stolen from Georgia, horses to the amount of a hundred thousand dollars. These were often the chief property of poor people, who had nothing else to depend on for supporting their families. Gentlemen say that we have one Indian war already. But if you have two hands, both in the fire at once, will you pull out one before the other? The Creeks are a savage and faithless tribe. Some years ago, a treaty was made with them at New York; and this treaty cost, in presents, sixty-one thousand dollars. Well, before the chiefs got home, a fresh set of murders were committed. A set of commissioners were next sent, and this embassy cost perhaps a hundred and fifty thousand dollars more. Gentlemen might talk as they thought fit about Indians; for his own part, he would not give the life of one white man for those of fifty Indians. The militia had been always successful against them, and the regulars had always been beaten; this showed the futility of the present amendment from the Senate. Of the successes of the militia, he gave some striking instances, where they had defeated three or four times their own number. As an evidence of the improper leaning on behalf of the Indians, Mr. C. adverted to what had just happened in Georgia. A gang of savages stole some horses. Lieutenant Hay, with a party of dragoons, pursued them, and fell into an ambuscade, where Mr. Hay and two men were killed. This was the way that the Creeks kept a peace. Soon after, an Indian, being found in the State, was wounded; and in the correspondence read the other day to the House, it was so stated, as if the white people were to blame. It made every drop of blood in his heart boil, to hear what he heard in this city as to the character and conduct of his constituents. As a Representative of Georgia, he demanded effectual aid for that State. If the House did not choose to grant it, he warned them that the Georgians would take measures for themselves. It was needless to speak of economy, after squandering such vast sums as he had mentioned, in the purchase of treaties that were never kept. He was against the amendment of the Senate.

Mr. DAYTON rose to contradict one assertion, which had fallen from the gentleman, viz: that the regulars were always beaten by the Indians. If gentlemen exercised their memories, or attended to historical facts, they would see the contrary. General Sullivan had entered the country of the Six Nations, had defeated them, and destroyed their towns, and since that time they had been looked upon as a subdued people. Mr. D. was himself in the army on that expedition, and a witness to the success of the regulars. He was for the amendment.

The question was put that the House do concur with the Senate in the said amendment, and passed in the negative--yeas 26, nays 42, as follows:

YEAS.--Fisher Ames, David Cobb, Peleg Coffin, Joshua Coit, Jonathan Dayton, George Dent, Thomas Fitzsimons, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, James Gordon, William Hindman, Henry Latimer, Amasa Learned, Francis Malbone, William Vans Murray, Theodore Sedgwick, William Smith, Zephaniah Swift, Uriah Tracy, Jonathan Trumbull, John E. Van Allen, Peter Van Gaasbeck, Peleg Wadsworth, Jeremiah Wadsworth, and John Watts.

NAYS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, John Beatty, Thomas Blount, Thomas P. Carnes, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac Coles, William J. Dawson, Henry Dearborn, William Findlay, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Alexander Gillon, Nicholas Gilman, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Daniel Heister, William Lyman, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Joseph McDowell, Alexander Mebane, William Montgomery, Andrew Moore, Joseph Neville, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Thomas Scott, John Smilie, Jeremiah Smith, Thomas Sprigg, Thomas Tredwell, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham Venable, Francis Walker, Benjamin Williams, Richard Winn, and Joseph Winston.

Ordered, That the further consideration of the said amendments be put off till to-morrow.

SATURDAY, June 7.

Mr. THATCHER moved that such members as had received their pay up to Monday next, and then absented themselves, should be ordered next session to return as much as they had received for the days when absent. The motion was ordered to lie on the table.

MONDAY, June 9.

LEMUEL BENTON (from South Carolina) appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to him by Mr. SPEAKER, according to law.

Mr. BENTON (from South Carolina) informed the SPEAKER, that he had been prevented by indisposition in his family, and a long voyage, from attending his duty sooner in that House. This was the day of adjournment, and he wished to inform the House, that he should decline receiving pay for his travelling expenses, or attendance. He was not willing to qualify himself this day, unless it could be noted on the journals that he had refused any compensation. He took the oath.

A message from the Senate informed the House, that the Senate having completed the Legislative business before them, are now about to adjourn until the first Monday in November next: Whereupon, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House until the first Monday in November next.

THIRD CONGRESS.--SECOND SESSION.

HELD IN THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, NOVEMBER 3, 1794.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE SENATE.

MONDAY, November 3, 1794.