Part 143

Mr. J. SMITH said, it appeared to him that the proposed alteration would amount to exactly the same thing; for the duty of giving the certificate would eventually devolve on the Executive.

The motion for striking out the clause was negatived.

The ninth section provides, that in case of vacancies in the offices of President and Vice President, the President of the Senate pro tem., or the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall act as President.

Mr. WHITE moved the section should be struck out. He said the House had formerly discussed the subject and could not agree; the first part of the bill is necessary; this is not of immediate importance to be attended to.

Mr. FITZSIMONS said, he supposed the question must be determined some time or other, and he knew of no reason why it should not be decided at this time; to strike out the clause would, in effect, be to declare that the House could not agree.

Mr. WILLIAMSON was in favor of striking out.

Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the motion; he said no two subjects could possibly be more intimately connected; and the provisions of the bill are such as to render the intermission, during which this regency was to take place, as short as possible; he hoped the clause would not be stricken out.

Mr. WHITE added some further objections to the section; he said it was distinct from the bill, and though a majority of the committee were in favor of the characters nominated, yet he thought it would be best to make it the object of another bill, and of an independent discussion.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he hoped the section would not be struck out, especially if there is a majority of the committee in favor of it. He observed, that last session there was no decision in the case; he conceived it necessary that the business should be now decided on; and adverting to the particular characters named, he said they were as far removed from any influence of the Executive as any persons that could be possibly pointed out.

Mr. BARNWELL was in favor of going into a discussion of the subject at this time. He said there was a large number of the present House who had not heard the observations offered in the last Congress; he supposed the present as proper a time to consider the subject as any that could occur. If gentlemen who are opposed to the section will offer their objections, he should be glad to hear them; if they were conclusive, he should vote to strike out the section. If nothing was offered, he should vote against the motion.

Mr. STURGES mentioned several objections to the section, which in his opinion rendered it unconstitutional; he could not find that the Speaker of the House, or President of the Senate pro tem. were officers of the Government in the sense contemplated by the constitution. The compensations of the President and Vice President are settled by the House; the Speaker would have to decide on those compensations; this he said rendered him evidently improper. He further observed that the consequence would be caballing and electioneering in the choice of Speaker.

Mr. WHITE said, the Speaker was not a permanent officer, if he could be considered as one in any point of view; but he was of opinion, that he was no more an officer of the Government than every other member of the House.

The question for striking out the section was negatived.

Mr. STURGES then moved to strike out the words, "the President of the Senate pro tempore, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives."

Mr. GILES stated the reasons which he conceived fully proved the unconstitutionality of the clause. The characters referred to he did not think were officers. If they had been considered as such, it is probable they would have been designated in the constitution; the constitution refers to some permanent officer to be created pursuant to the provisions therein contained. These persons are not permanent; a permanent officer was contemplated; the subject was not to be left to any casuality, if it could possibly be prevented.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he did not know what officer could with propriety be said to be permanent; offices are held during good behavior in some instances, and in others during pleasure; but it will be impossible to say that any officer is a permanent officer, for the expression is very extensive. He was surprised to hear the idea controverted, that the Speaker of the House, or the President of the Senate pro tem., is not an officer. In common parlance he was sure there was no difficulty in the matter.

Mr. GERRY observed, that some gentleman had said the Speaker is not an officer; but if he is not an officer, what is he? He then read a clause from the constitution, which says that the House shall choose their Speaker and other officers. He hoped, however, that the Speaker of the House of Representatives would be struck out, in order to avoid blending the Legislative and Executive branches together. He considered this measure as a political stroke of the Senate; but he hoped that the House would never consent to making their Speaker an amphibious animal. He moved therefore that the words "Speaker of the House of Representatives" should be struck out.

Mr. HILLHOUSE objected to any officer appointed by the Executive being inserted. He said, if that should be the case, the appointments would in most cases be made with reference to that object; and hence important offices would often be filled with improper and incompetent persons. Besides, it was taking away the choice from the people, and thus violating the first principle of a free elective Government. The Senate are appointed by the people, or their Representatives, and hence, in his opinion, filling the vacancy would devolve with the greatest propriety on that body.

Mr. WILLIAMSON was in favor of the motion for striking out both the characters. He observed, that this extensive construction of the meaning of the word officer, would render it proper to point out any person in the United States, whether connected with the Government or not, as a proper person to fill the vacancy contemplated.

Before taking the question upon the amendment, the committee rose.

TUESDAY, January 10.

A memorial of George Turner, one of the Judges in and over the territory of the United States north-west of the Ohio, was presented to the House and read, praying a revision of the ordinance for the government of the said territory, and also an increase of compensation to the Judges thereof. Referred to Mr. LIVERMORE, Mr. LAURANCE, Mr. WHITE, Mr. WILLIAMSON, and Mr. SMITH, (of South Carolina); that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.

On a motion made and seconded,

"That the Secretary of War be instructed to lay before this House an accurate statement of all ascertained balances of pay, which appear by the books of the United States to be due to the officers and soldiers of the late Army of the United States, and which still remain either unclaimed, or claimed and unpaid, together with the reasons for withholding payment from those who may have respectively entered claims therefor;"

Ordered, That the said motion be referred to Mr. WADSWORTH, Mr. GILES, and Mr. SMITH, (of New Hampshire;) that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereupon, to the House.

The House proceeded to fill up the remaining blanks in the bill to establish the Post Office and Post Roads of the United States; which was then read a third time and passed.

Petition of Catharine Greene.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the petition of Catharine Greene, relict of the late General Greene.