Part 112

In Committee of the Whole on the bill, declaring what officer, in case of vacancy [by death, removal, or inability] in the offices of President and Vice President, shall act as President, Mr. BOUDINOT in the chair.

The first clause of the bill was read, which contains a blank to be filled up, designating the person who shall act as President.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) observed that, by the constitution, the vacancy is to be filled with an officer of the United States. This narrows the discussion very much. But he conceived there was a previous question necessary to be determined; and that was, whether the person appointed to supply the vacancy should hold the office during the time for which the President and Vice President were elected, or whether he was to hold the office only till a new election could take place. He thought that, by the constitution, a new election was not to take place till the term for which the President and Vice President had been elected was expired.

He then descanted on the respective offices of the Chief Justice, Secretary of State, and Secretary of the Treasury; and, by several particulars, showed that the appointment would most naturally devolve on the Secretary of State. He accordingly moved that the blank be filled with the words "The Secretary of State."

Mr. LIVERMORE observed, that in considering this question, he thought no reference should be had to the officers which had been mentioned, for, as it was supposed that the case contemplated would not happen once in a hundred years, he conceived that the present characters, who now hold the above offices, would be entirely out of the question. He had in view a different person, and that was the President of the Senate, pro tempore, and moved that the blank be filled with this person.

Mr. WHITE observed, that the constitution says the vacancy shall be filled by an officer of the United States. The President, pro tempore, of the Senate, is not an officer of the United States. Besides, this will give one branch of the Legislature the power of electing a President. This, he conceived, was contrary to the constitution, as both branches have a right to an equal voice in the appointment in this case. This will introduce the very evil intended to be guarded against.

Mr. WILLIAMSON said, the motion was directly repugnant to the constitution. Why not choose the Speaker of this House?

Mr. LIVERMORE said, he was well aware of the objections offered by the gentlemen. He could have wished the constitution had pointed out the person. But he conceived that the Senate was the only body that could do this business. If either of the officers mentioned should be the person designated to supply the vacancy, it would be in the power of the Vice President, by virtue of the power of removing officers, absolutely to appoint a successor, without consulting either branch of the Legislature.

Mr. SHERMAN observed that this matter is left with the Legislature. The whole power of the people, in case of vacancy, devolves on the Legislature. The particular officer is not pointed out; it lies with Congress to say who it shall be. The President of the Senate is an officer of the United States. In case of the death of a Governor and Lieutenant Governor, it is common in the several States, for the oldest councillor to preside. He instanced the case of the abdication of James II. Adverting to the constitution, he showed that the appointment of Vice President, in certain cases, devolves on the Senate. The vacancy may be filled for a longer or shorter time, and this appears to be a question previous in its nature to be determined.

Mr. SEDGWICK said he should be in favor of the motion of the gentleman from New Hampshire, if it was not for the express provision in the constitution, which says, the office shall be filled by an officer of the United States. Should the vacancy now happen, there would be no officer of the Senate that could be appointed.

He mentioned that the office of Chief Justice was considered as next to that of President, and therefore on the whole, he considered him as the most proper person to fill the vacancy. He thought the bill respecting the votes for President and Vice President should be first determined. He moved, therefore, that the committee should rise, and take up the next bill.

Mr. CARROLL and Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the motion for the committee's rising.

Mr. MADISON was also opposed to the motion. He enlarged on the subject, and said he thought it a duty urged by a variety of considerations, important in themselves, and more so, perhaps, in their consequences, that the decision should now be made.

Mr. SMITH started a variety of objections to Mr. LIVERMORE's proposition. He thought it unconstitutional, as it would, in its operation, deprive a State of a vote in the Senate.

Mr. BOURNE said he seconded the motion for the committee's rising, because he conceived there was other business of more immediate importance to be considered; and he saw no necessity for coming to a decision on this question at the present time.

Mr. LAWRENCE supposed that the blank could be filled up in the House; he was, therefore, in favor of the committee's rising.

The motion for the committee's rising was negatived.

Mr. BENSON was in favor of filling up the blank with the Chief Justice. He observed that the objection arising from the Vice President's having it in his power to name his successor, in case the Secretary of State is inserted, does not apply to the Chief Justice. He is independent of the Executive.

He pointed out several particulars, in which there was an incompatibility in the offices of Secretary of State, and that of President. He observed that the appointment to the Regency, in all countries, is generally of the first law officer.

Mr. JACKSON objected to the Chief Justice, and said the Speaker of the House of Representatives was, in his opinion, the next officer in point of dignity to the President and Vice President.

Mr. MADISON objected to the Chief Justice, as it would be blending the Judiciary and the Executive. He objected to the President pro tem. of the Senate. He will be a Senator of some particular State, liable to be instructed by the State, and will still hold his office--thus he will hold two offices at once. He adverted to the other objections which had been offered against the Secretary of the State, and showed the compatibility of the two offices.

Mr. STONE stated sundry difficulties respecting all the officers that had been named; but, on the whole, thought there were fewer against the Secretary of State than any other officer that had been mentioned.

Mr. SENEY was opposed to coming to any decision at the present time. He thought more important business was before the House. He was not for making any decision that would give umbrage to any officer of the Government. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of the Treasury were equally entitled to public notice.

Mr. CARROLL was in favor of coming to a decision; and if nothing more could be offered against the motion for filling up the blank with the Secretary of State, he presumed the committee were ripe for a decision. He referred to the situation of countries who had not, in season, made provision for a Regent, &c.

Mr. SHERMAN said, he was in favor of the committee's rising and reporting the bill, and leaving the blanks to be filled up in the House.

Mr. WHITE was in favor of filling up the blank in the committee--he saw no reason for a delay. The officers mentioned are as well known now as they will be three days hence. The President and Vice President being in health, is a reason why the subject should now be considered; it can be done with coolness and freedom from all warmth.

Mr. LAWRENCE said, he thought there was no necessity for precipitating the decision. With respect to every person that has been named, difficulties have been started. The subject is important, and time should be given to deliberate on the several officers that have been named. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would rise and report the bill, and leave the blank to be filled up at another time.

Mr. BURKE was in favor of the committee's rising. He observed, that the members in general appeared to be very much undetermined. This is the first day the subject has been under consideration. He hoped the members would not be precipitated to vote on the occasion.