Part 138

Socr. In the next place, this is very pleasant; for he, with respect to his own opinion, admits, that the opinion of those who differ from him, in that they think he is in error, is true, since he allows that all men form opinions of things that exist.

Theo. Certainly.

Socr. Must he not, therefore, admit that his own opinion is false, if he allows that the opinion of those who think he is in error is true?

Theo. Necessarily so.

Socr. The others however do not admit that they are in error?

Theo. Surely not.

73. Socr. He however, from what he has written, allows that this opinion also is true.

Theo. It appears so.

Socr. It will therefore be controverted by all men, Protagoras not excepted, or rather will be allowed by him, that when he admits to one who differs from him, that he forms a true opinion, then even Protagoras himself will admit that neither a dog, nor any man whatever, is the measure of a thing that he has not learnt. Is it not so?

Theo. It is.

Socr. Therefore, since this is controverted by all men, Protagoras’s truth will not be true to any one, neither to any one else, nor to himself.

Theo. We run down my friend too severely, Socrates.

Socr. But, moreover, my friend, it is uncertain whether we have not also exceeded the bounds of propriety. For it is probable that he being older is wiser than we are: and if he should suddenly rise up as far as his neck, having reproved me much for trifling, as is probable, and you for assenting, he would sink down again and hurry away. 74. But it is necessary for us, I think, to make use of our own abilities such as they are, and to say whatever appears to us to be true. Well then, shall we now say that any one will grant this, that one man is wiser than another, and another also more ignorant?

Theo. It appears so to me.

Socr. Shall we say too that our argument holds good as we have laid it down in our endeavours to assist Protagoras, that most things are as they appear to every one, warm, dry, sweet, and all other things of this kind; but that if in some things he shall admit that one man excels another, he would say with regard to things wholesome and unwholesome, that not every silly woman, boy and brute, is competent to cure itself by knowing what is wholesome for itself, but that here, if any where, one excels another?

Theo. So it appears to me.

75. Socr. And with respect to political matters, he will admit that things honourable and base, just and unjust, holy and unholy, as each city thinks right to enact laws for itself, are in truth such to each city, and yet that in these things one individual is not at all wiser than another, nor one city than another; but in enacting what is expedient for itself or not expedient, here again, if any where, he will allow that one counsellor excels another, and the opinion of one city that of another with regard to truth; nor will he by any means venture to affirm, that the laws which a city enacts, thinking them to be expedient for itself, must certainly be so. But here in the matter I am speaking about, with respect to what is just and unjust, holy and unholy, men will persist that none of these have by nature an essence of their own, but that what appears to the community to be true, that becomes true at the time when it so appears, and so long as it appears. And those who do not altogether hold the doctrine of Protagoras, deal with philosophy in some such manner as this. But one topic of conversation, Theodorus, springs from another, a greater from a less.

76. Theo. Have we not leisure, Socrates?

Socr. We appear to have. And I have often at other times observed, my excellent friend, and especially now, with what good reason those who have spent much time in philosophical studies, are found to be ridiculous orators when they enter courts of justice.

Theo. What mean you by this?

Socr. They that have been from their youth in courts of justice, and places of that kind, when compared with those who have been nurtured in philosophy and such-like studies, appear to have been educated like slaves compared with freemen.

Theo. In what respect?

Socr. In this, that these, as you said, have always leisure, and converse in peace at their leisure, just as we now are taking up our third topic in succession, so they too, if any question occurs to them that pleases them better than the one in hand, as is the case with us, are not at all concerned whether they speak at length or briefly, if they can but arrive at the truth. But the others always speak in a hurry, for the running water presses them on, nor are they allowed to speak on whatever subject they wish, but their opponent stands by them with this instrument of compulsion, and the record (which they call the pleadings) read aloud, out of which they must not travel; and their speeches are always about a fellow slave before the master who is seated holding the scales of justice in his hand, their contests too, are never unrestrained, but are always to the point before them, and oftentimes it is a race for life. 77. So that, from all these causes they become vehement and keen, knowing how to flatter the master by words, and to conciliate him by actions, being mean and not upright in soul. For slavery from childhood has taken away their growth, and rectitude, and freedom, compelling them to do crooked actions, by exposing their yet tender souls to great dangers and fears, which not being able to bear up against with justice and truth, they immediately have recourse to lying and injuring one another, and become so bent and distorted, that they pass from youth to manhood without having any solidity in their minds, but have become clever and wise, as they think. Such then are these, Theodorus. But are you willing that I should describe the men of our band, or that, passing them by, we should return again to our subject, lest we abuse too much our liberty and powers of digression, which we just now spoke of.

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Footnote 158:

I have followed Stallbaum in giving this meaning to ἀνάγκη. See his note on this passage. I have perhaps taken a liberty in translating ἀντωμοσίαν in the next line “pleadings,” but I know of no other word that will convey our author’s meaning to an English reader, and in the passage before us technicality is unnecessary.

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78. Theo. By no means, Socrates, but describe them. For you observed very well, that we who are members of this band, are not the servants of topics of discussion, but they are our servants as it were, and each of them must wait for its completion until we think proper. For neither does a judge nor a spectator preside over us, to rebuke and keep us in order, as is the case with the poets.