Part 85

Q. Was Holloway present then?

A. Yes he was; they both came together.

Q. What Lyte stated was in the presence of Holloway?

A. Exactly so. Holloway stated that he did it with a view of obtaining money, by the rise in the funds.

Q. Did he state any thing more?

A. He stated that he was not aware of the serious turn it would take; that he did not contemplate it in that point of view at first; but finding that it had taken so serious a turn, he had come forward and confessed it, in the hope that the Stock Exchange would not pursue it to extremities, and carry on the action against him, or the prosecution: He was asked whether he had any connection with Lord Cochrane, Cochrane Johnstone, or Mr. Butt, which he denied.

Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell.

Q. Do you know what it was that immediately led to Mr. Holloway's making this communication to the Stock Exchange?

A. No I do not; nothing more than the publicity of the measures which they were taking to follow up the parties, I believe.

Q. Did you not learn at the time from Mr. Holloway during this conversation, and from Mr. Lyte, that M'Rae had offered to come forward for a very considerable sum of money and state his knowledge of the transaction?

A. That had been stated before publicly I believe in Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's letter.

Q. I ask as to the conversation at the time, do you recollect whether or not at the time of this interview between Holloway, Lyte, and the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, any thing was said about M'Rae's having offered to be a witness for a large sum of money?

A. There was certainly something said, but whether it was mentioned first by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, or by Mr. Holloway, I cannot recollect.

Q. Did not Mr. Holloway state, that in order to prevent the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange paying a large sum of money for the communication that would be paid in fact for nothing, he would come forward and state the part of the transaction in which he was concerned?

A. I believe he did.

Q. It was understood by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, was it not, that that communication of M'Rae's was supposed to extend to my Lord Cochrane's part in the transaction?

Mr. Gurney. What was understood cannot be asked.

Mr. Serjeant Pell. I ask as to what was said at the time, was it not said that M'Rae's communication was to affect Lord Cochrane's share in the transaction?

A. I do not recollect that that was stated.

Q. I think you stated that Mr. Holloway or Mr. Lyte distinctly asserted, that this business of theirs had nothing to do with that in which Lord Cochrane was concerned?

A. He did.

Q. Do you know what was the sum that it was stated M'Rae was to be a witness for, was not it so large a sum as L10,000?

A. That sum had been stated in a letter which passed?

Q. Was it not stated in the conversation?

A. I believe it was; but the subject of the communication of M'Rae was so little attended to by the Committee, that it never entered their heads that any such sum should be paid.

Q. Was there any letter, or any writing of Mr. Holloway's produced at the time?

A. I really cannot fix my memory.

Q. Have you any recollection of any letter of his having been produced at the time?