Part 12

83,641. A proportion of Europeans in the service was needed, but only as experts and not as ordinary teachers. Only the very best men should be obtained from Europe, and for exceptional cases. The general educational work should be done entirely by Indians, who understood the difficulties of the country much better than any outsider.

83,642. He advocated the direct recruitment of Indians in India by the local government in consultation with the Secretary of State, rather than by the Secretary of State alone. Indians were under a great difficulty, in that they could not remain indefinitely in England after taking their degrees and being away from the place of recruitment their claims were overlooked.

83,643. There was no reason why a European should be paid a higher rate of salary than an Indian on account of the distance he came. An Indian felt a sense of inferiority if a difference was made as regards pay. The very slight saving which government made by differentiating between the two did not compensate for the feeling of wrong done. This feeling would remain even if the pay was the same, but an additional grant in the shape of a foreign service allowance was made to Europeans. All workers in the field of education should feel a sense of solidarity, because they were all serving one great cause, namely, education.

83,644. The term "professor", as at present used in India, was undoubtedly a comprehensive one, but it was equally comprehensive in the West.

83,645. (Sir Murray Hammick). The witness did not wish to recruit definite proportions of the service in England and in India respectively. He would for various reasons prefer a large number of Indians engaged in education.

83,646. Even in Calcutta he would not make any difference between the pay of the Indian and the pay of the European.

83,647. (Sir Valentine Chirol). The witness attached great value to the influence of the teacher upon the student in the earlier stages of his education, and it was in these stages that that influence could best be exercised. At the same time he desired to limit the appointment of non-Indians to men of very great distinction.

83,648. If a foreign professor would not come and serve in India for the same remuneration as he obtained in his own country, the witness would certainly not force him to come.

83,649. (Mr. Abdur Rahim). Recruitment for the Educational Service should be made in the first place in India, if suitable men were available; but if not then he would allow the best outsiders to be brought in. In the present state of the country it would be very easy to fill up many of the chairs by selecting the best men in India.

83,650. The aim of the universities should be to promote two classes of work--first, research; and secondly, an all-round sound education. Men of different types would be required for these two duties.

83,651. (Mr. Madge). Any idea that the educational system of India was so far inferior to that of England, that Indians, who had made their mark, had done so, not because of the educational system of the country, but in spite of it, was quite unfounded. The standard of education prevailing in India was quite up to the mark of several British universities. It was as true of any other country in the world as of India that education was valued as a means for passing examinations, and not only for itself, and there was no more cramming in India than elsewhere.

83,652. The West certainly brought to the East a modern spirit, which was very valuable, but it would be dearly purchased by the loss of an honorable career for competent Indians in their own country.

83,653. The educational system in India had in the past been too mechanical, but a turn for the better was now taking place and the universities were recognising the importance of research work, and were willing to give their highest degrees to encourage it.

83,654. (Mr. Macdonald). The witness did not think it was necessary to have a non-Indian element in the service in order to stiffen it up, but he accepted the principle that there should be a certain small proportion of non-Indians.

83,655. The title of professor at a college or University should carry with it dignity and honour, and ought not to be so freely used as at present. All he asked was that it should not be abolished at the expense of such Indians as were doing as good work as their European colleagues.

83,656. If the Calcutta university continued to develop its teaching side, there would be no objection to recruiting University Professors from aided colleges. This would have certain advantages.

83,657. (Mr. Fisher). The witness desired to secure for India Europeans who had European reputations in their different branches of study. If it was necessary to go outside India or England to procure good men, he would prefer to go to Germany. This was the practice in America where they were annexing all the great intellects of Europe.

83,658. The witness would like to see India entering the world movement in the advance and march of knowledge. It was of the highest importance that there should be an intellectual atmosphere in India. It would be of advantage if there were many Indians in the Educational Service. For they came more in contact with the people, and influenced their intellectual activity. Besides, on retirement they would live in India and their life experience would be at their countrymen's service.

83,659. There was very little in the complaint made in certain quarters that the work of the Professors in the colleges in India was hampered by the Government regulations as to curricula. A good teacher was not troubled by such matters.

83,660. (Mr. Sly). There was no scope for the employment of non-Indians in the high schools as apart from the colleges. It was in the professorial line that more help from the West was required.

83,661. (Mr. Gokhale). The witness knew of three instances in which the colonies had secured distinguished men on salaries which were lower than these given to officers of the Indian Educational Service. One was at Toronto, another was in New Zealand and the third at Yale university. The salaries on the two latter cases were L600 and L500 a year. The same held good as regards Japan. The facts there had been stated in a Government of India publication as follows: "Subsequent to 1895 there were 67 Professors recruited in Europe and America, of those, 20 came from Germany, 16 from England and 16 from the United States. The average pay was L384. In the highest Imperial University the average pay is L684. As soon as Japanese could be found to do the work, even tolerably well, the foreigner was dropped."

83,662. When the witness first started work in India, he found that there was no physical laboratory, or any grant made for a practical experimental course. He had to construct instruments with the help of local mechanics, whom he had to train. All this took him ten years. He then undertook original investigation at his own expense. The Royal Society became specially interested in his work and desired to give him a Parliamentary grant for its continuation. It was after this that the Government of Bengal came forward and offered him facilities for research.

83,663. In the Educational Service he would take men of achievement from anywhere; but men of promise he would take from his own country.

83,664. (Mr. Chaubal). He did not know whether the salaries he had mentioned as having been paid in Japan, New Zealand and Yale were on an incremental scale or not.

83,665. There was a difference of kind between the way in which students were taught in schools and the way in which they were taught in colleges. He did not agree with the witnesses who had said that during the first year or two years at college the instruction given was similar to that given in a school. It was very difficult to disprove or to prove such statements. There would be no advantage in keeping boys to a school course up the intermediate standard and making the colleges deal with only those students who had passed the intermediate examination.

83,666. (Sir Theodore Morison). There should be one scale of pay for all persons in the higher educational department. The rate of salary, Rs. 200 rising to Rs. 1,500 per month, was suitable, subject to the proviso that the man of great distinction, instead of beginning at the lowest rate of pay, should start some where in the middle of the list, say, at Rs. 400 or Rs. 500. He would make no reference in regard to Europeans or Indians in that respect. In effect this no doubt amounted to making Indians eligible for higher educational posts both by direct recruitment and by promotion.

83,667. He would not favour the handing over of all the Government institutions in Bengal to private agencies; there must be one or two Government colleges in order to keep up the standard. He should be sorry to see the Government dissociating itself from one of its primary duties, which was education.

83,668. Privately managed Colleges paid less in salary than the Government Colleges. They paid about the same as was given in the Provincial Service, and they obtained fairly good men. It would not be right for a great Government to grant a minimum pay to Indian Professors and an extravagantly high pay to their European colleagues, for doing the same kind of work.