Part 36

Lord Sydney is to move it on Monday; the Duke of Portland having told him (in consequence of his having, at my desire, put the question explicitly to him), that he meant to take no part in it. Probably, however, this determination will last only till he gets a fresh set of instructions from Fox.

The news of the day is, that they are quarrelling about having Lord Loughborough of the Cabinet. I am going to the King to deliver your letter, and if it be true, shall very likely hear it.

12th.

Nothing material passed last night, as I was a very short time with the King, and the conversation was quite general; so much so, that I had no kind of opportunity to introduce what you mentioned to me, and I am sure you agree with me, that it was impossible for me to begin that sort of conversation.

I have delayed this letter till to-day, in order to send you the papers containing the debate, which is very accurately stated in them.

I have seen Lord Sydney to-day about this Bill, and I think we have settled, at last, that on Monday he should move for the second reading, stating a little the grounds of the Bill, and should then proceed to say that the Bill was taken by us out of Lord Beauchamp's hands, because we thought it proper that whatever was done in a business of this nature should proceed from Government; that, for the same reason, having brought it to this stage, he would now resign it into the hands of the present Government. It is a measure which cannot be indifferent: if it accords with the new system to be pursued in Ireland, the persons who are to carry on that system should adopt and forward it. If their system is to be contrary to it, nothing can then be so pernicious as a Bill upon the subject of Ireland passed in opposition to the ideas of Government. The object of the Bill certainly must be to conciliate the affections of the people of Ireland to Government there, and in England. Would this object be answered, if the Bill be passed without the express concurrence and consent of that Government which now exists? Will not the effect be the direct contrary, if they are to be told--which was Yelverton's expression to Mornington--that the Bill puts Ireland in a worse situation than before the Repeal?

The more I think all this over, the more I am convinced that we ought not to commit ourselves to the event of a measure which is already so much found fault with by the Duke of Portland's people. If a Lord-Lieutenant of theirs is appointed, he will be to condemn it, and to give fresh encouragement to another ferment, which will be to be allayed by some new measure here. Surely, all this is neither for the peace of Ireland, nor for the dignity of Great Britain. Upon these grounds it is, that I think Lord Sydney ought to leave the business to them.

The Duke of Dorset is turned out to make room for Lord Cholmondely.

I hear not a word of your successor. Pray do not forget to desire Fremantle to reform my household. Adieu, my dear brother.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

Lord Northington and Lord Hillsborough, are most talked of for Ireland.

The loan, said to be abominable, has been done for more than 6 per cent. profit. A large private seal.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, April 15th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

I enclose you the papers of this morning, which will give you a pretty exact idea of the conversation, rather than debate, which took place upon the second reading of the Irish Bill. The "Morning Post" comes nearest to the Duke of Portland's speech. That in the "Morning Chronicle" was evidently inserted by some of their people (to whom that paper is devoted), and contains rather what he ought to have said, and, perhaps, what he was instructed to say, than what he actually did say. None of the papers have, however, given the following words, which I remarked to Mornington the moment they were spoke, and took down upon paper as soon as I came home, so that I can be positive as to their having been exact.

"As to this Bill, I concur in it, because I think it was made necessary by what was done last year, and consider it as a necessary consequence of that."

After this, I hope we shall not have to hear Mr. Fox, in England, or those whom he supposes his friends in Ireland, say, what Mr. Fox said when the Bill was first moved for, that it was wholly unnecessary.

I waited to send this off till I saw whether there would be any alteration proposed, or any debate on the wording of the Bill in the Committee. I went to the House, and there saw Lord Thurlow, who told me that if the Bill had not come recommended by you, he should have had a great deal to say upon it; but as it was, he meant not to speak at all with respect to it, on your account.

I hear nothing of any successor to you, and begin to be a little uneasy about it, for a reason which Jemmy desired me to press to you, though, I confess, it appears stronger to him than it does to me. What I mean is, that in the manner in which these people are going on, throwing away the scabbard entirely both with the King and the people, it is utterly impossible but that they must overturn themselves almost immediately; and if a change should happen while you are still in Ireland, you could have no excuse for not remaining, which, after all that has passed, would be most unpleasant.

Now for my own part, I own I do not expect quite so sudden a dissolution of the present Government, because I am sure they will not resign, and I do not think the King will be able to turn them out till the session is over. Still, however, your being here would be very material, standing in so high a situation as you do; and in that idea I have a wish, if you should not disapprove of it, to take an opportunity in the House of Commons, immediately after the holidays (or at least as soon as I can hear from you, supposing nobody appointed before), to call the attention of the House to the situation of Ireland, suffering at least as much from an interregnum as this country did, and to say that the same motives which made it, in the opinion of all the world, necessary for Lord Shelburne and Pitt actually to quit their situations before a successor was appointed, rather than hold responsible office without responsibility, must also in the end actuate you, however unwilling, &c., &c.

Lees is appointed Under Secretary to Lord North. The Duke of Dorset forced out at the requisition of the Prince of Wales, contrary, as it is said, to an express promise made to him by the King. Fortescue (Lord Clermont's nephew) desired me to remind you of a promise of the Linen Board next after two, which, he says, is now the case.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

Up to this time, no successor was found for Lord Temple. Mr. Grenville, writing on the 19th, says: "They are under real difficulties about your successor. They have offered the situation even to Lord Althorpe, who refused it two days ago. I rather think, putting together circumstances and appearances, that it will end in Lord Hillsborough." A successor, however, was at last found in the person of Lord Northington.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

April 25th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

I believe I may at last congratulate you upon the appointment of Lord Northington, and Wyndham of Norfolk, to succeed us in our respective situations. It is not yet publicly notified, but I have every reason to think that you may depend upon my information. As soon as it is declared, I mean to see them, in order to settle with the former the time which he wishes to have for his preparations, &c., and with the latter the taking such of my things as he may be disposed to. After that I think of setting out for Ireland tout de suite. There is no public news that I hear of. Things seem to remain pretty much in the same situation as when I wrote last.