Part 21

Pall Mall, Feb. 8th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

Lord Nugent tells me that when he saw the Primate, he observed to him that, by the list of officers of the Order, there was no mention made of any prelate, although in other respects the Garter was implicitly followed; and he says he thought, by the Primate's manner, that he himself wanted to be that prelate; as that officer is, you know, superior in rank to the Chancellor of the Order.

If this be the case, I can see no reason why the offer should not be made to him, which might still be done by your writing to say that that office had been omitted, from the impossibility of giving it to any other person but himself, and a doubt how far he might like the trouble; but that you had daily expected him in Ireland, and meant to ask him the question; but the time now drawing near, &c., &c.

Nothing else has passed on the subject, except a third application from Lord Clermont, through General Cuninghame, to whom I stated the total impossibility, &c. I expected Lord Bellamont to have asked it to-day; but he did not drop a word upon the subject.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Feb. 11th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

Things are drawing near to their crisis. Lord Shelburne's weakness is every day more apparent. Nothing is clearer than that he cannot stand a week without some addition. The strongest proof of this is what Pitt told me to-day: that it being thought necessary to make some attempt at a junction with Fox, he had seen him to-day, when he asked one question, viz., whether there were any terms on which he would come in. The answer was, None, while Lord Shelburne remained; and so it ended.

Upon this, I think one may observe, that the one must be very desperate, the other very confident, before such a question could be so put and so answered.

I told him I was glad the attempt was made, though I was not at all surprised at the event. He said that he thought they would now be justified in seeking for additional strength elsewhere. I said I thought so too, but that I could not help trusting that this expression did not go to include the idea of bringing back any of the old people to Cabinet offices; that I thought the line was clear that it was the duty of every man to do his utmost to keep the Government in such hands as were fit and able to hold it (under which description I could not include any of that set); but that when it was so placed, it was idle to say that support was not to be looked for where it could be had. He said that, without making professions, he could with truth say, that this had always been his idea. And so our conversation ended--at least, this was the only material part of it.

There is no doubt but that they have been making proposals to Jenkinson, and these must have failed before the other offer could be made. On the other hand, I know for certain that negotiations, through more than one channel, have been entame between Fox and Lord North. This must be bien en train, if one may judge by what I tell you in this letter.

In that case, as well as in that which I put to ----, I take it for granted that I know your line; and whatever the effect of that line must be with respect to my own fortunes, I have infinitely too great a concern for your honour and my own, not to desire and wish it most eagerly. The only thing which pains me is the consideration of Bernard. If the interval should afford you an opportunity for that, I should depart in peace. Adieu.

Believe me, Most sincerely and affectionately yours, ----

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Feb. 15th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

I have this day received your letter of the 9th, and have the greatest satisfaction at that which you express respecting this long-agitated Bill. Since you wrote that, but before this time, you will have received a letter from me, enclosing a Bill proposed by Percy. I confess his dissent alarmed me a good deal at the time, ignorant as I was whether you might not see it in the same light. I am convinced now that it proceeds only from his resentment at not being consulted previous to its being fixed upon. The second reading stands now for Wednesday; but I doubt whether it can come on, as I understand the call previously fixed for that day is to be insisted upon. Before that time, I shall probably have received your letter, informing me whom you have consulted, as that is very material, particularly with regard to my being able to urge Grattan and Yelverton's authority against Fox and Fitzpatrick. At all events, however, I mean now to proceed in it on that day if I can, if not as early as possible, and to bring you the account of the third reading in the House of Commons.

All this proceeds upon the idea that nothing of a different nature happens before; which I still think there is every reason to imagine. I cannot learn whether Fox and Lord North have settled their coalition so as to act together on Monday. Jenkinson is, I believe, secured to us; but at what price, and with what following, I am utterly ignorant; and on that the whole undoubtedly depends. As soon as I know anything, you shall hear it in the most expeditious manner; but I do not give you my conjectures when they are merely such, because I know people at a distance are apt to give them more weight than they deserve, and I should be sorry to mislead you.

The Duke of Rutland is Lord Steward, and it is said he is called to the Cabinet. This, to my mind, argues great weakness indeed. In the House of Lords, Lord Pembroke moves the Address; in the House of Commons, T. Pitt. This, I think, does not show very great strength. The seconders I know not.

You have several times mentioned the Pension List; and I have as often forgot to tell you, that I inquired in the first instance without speaking to Pitt, and found that, whatever reform is to be made, rests wholly with Lord Shelburne, who appears to act in it on no system, but to add or to take away at his pleasure. Jackson and Jemmy Grenville remonstrated some days ago at the Treasury against signing any more till they saw that the act was to be complied with.

Upon the subject of the Fisheries, I have had a conversation with Hunter Blair, the member for Edinburgh. There has been a meeting of the Scotch members to support a Bill in Parliament to extend the bounty now given in England for the Scotch coast, to fish caught on the Irish coast, and to give the fishermen a power of landing and drying on the Irish, as on the Scotch coast. They went to Lord Shelburne, who referred them to me. I desired Blair to send me a copy of the memorial, and an abstract of the several British and Irish Acts on the subject.

The Irish are very ill done, as the two most material, in 1764 and 1776, are omitted. I do not find by any Irish Act whether the Irish fishermen have the power of landing and drying; if they have, I should think it does extend to all the King's subjects; as the Act of 1782, restraining the bounty to Irish ships, does not touch the power of fishing. If they have it not, no English Act now to be made can give it them; but if they have it, we may extend the bounty as we please.

The reason they assign for wishing it is, that the herrings shift yearly from one part to another of the narrow seas, and that as the Irish have, by an English Act, the privilege of fishing on the Scotch coast, it is but just that the English and Scotch should fish on the Irish when the fish are there, as has been the case these two last years. The consideration presses, as the seamen now to be discharged will, of course, many of them return to Scotland to find employment, and the fishing cannot, as they state, be carried on at all, but by such indulgence as they apply for.

Lord Glandon was with me to-day, to ask whether Coppinger is one of the new Judges, and, in that case, who he should bring in for his borough. He told me that he had sold the other seat to Sir W. Gleadowe. I did not dare ask whether he was engaged for the next Parliament, because it would have given too much of a hint of the dissolution. I therefore only said, that I did not believe the names were fixed for the three Judges.

Lord Bellamont is outrageous about the Order, and has been with Townshend about it; but not with me. I have sent your paper about Irvine to Lord Shelburne, but have had no answer. I enclose you a letter from Lord Clanricarde, with my answer. Lord Nugent has seen him, and says he is beyond measure flattered, and well-disposed towards you.

I shall go to Lord Shelburne on Tuesday or Wednesday, and press him about the peerages, &c., &c. As to applying to Townshend, it is useless; for he has all the disposition in the world, but not a jot more.