Part 86

David M. Randolph, sworn.

Mr. Harper. Were you marshal of the United States for the district of Virginia in 1800?

Answer. I was, sir.

Mr. Harper. Did you attend the circuit court held in May of that year, as marshal?

A. I did, sir.

Mr. Harper. Did you summon the panel of the jury that served on the trial of Callender?

A. I did.

Mr. Harper. Had you any conversation with Judge Chase on the forming that panel?

A. I had no conversation with him on that subject. There was a conversation offered to me by Judge Chase.

Mr. Harper. What was it?

A. The judge recommended to me that I should get persons generally from the country; represented that they should be twenty-five years of age, of fair characters, untainted by party prejudices.

Mr. Harper. Did any gentlemen summoned apply to you to be discharged?

A. Several. At the moment I received orders to have two juries ready by Monday, I called on my two deputies, and desired them to take down, on distinct papers, the names I mentioned to them. I observed that I chose to take the responsibility on myself. While they were taking down the names, I summoned several persons whose names were not put down till Monday. On Monday, finding my two deputies had not summoned a sufficient number, I went in quest of them. I found them at the end of the town, in the act of executing my orders. Mr. Moseby, one of my deputies, was standing with Colonel Vanderval, I think in conversation with him. I called him across the street, and asked him how they succeeded. At this time I saw my other deputy. They told me they wanted but one or two jurors. I told them they must make haste. About this time I saw Mr. Basset entering town on horseback. I told him that he had been crossed as a grand juror for non-attendance; that he must serve as a petit juror, which would give him an opportunity of offering his apology. I took out my watch, and told him that I allowed him five minutes. We arrived at the capitol, and my deputies there gave me their memorandums, from which, and my own, I made up the list of the jury. Two gentlemen, Mr. Lewis and Mr. Blakely, offered something like excuses. I looked at Mr. Blakely, and said there was only one excuse that I would admit, to wit: his being under twenty-five years of age. He said he was under that age, and I dismissed him. Mr. Lewis said he might make the same excuse. I said I doubted it, but I let him off. As I went into the passage, I met Mr. Samuel Myers, who also desired to be let off. I told him I could not and would not. He said I would excuse him for a reason which he could assign. He whispered, and said that he was prejudiced against Callender. I permitted him to go, but begged him to keep that reason to himself. Another juror summoned, was very warm and importunate to be excused. I told him there was only one ground on which I would excuse him. He asked me what it was. I answered that if it applied to him he already knew it. I begged him to go to the court, and he would learn what it was. He did so. Colonel Harvie stopped me in the passage in a hasty manner, and with great warmth and friendliness urged me to let him off. He said he was sheriff of Henrico County. I said I knew it, but that I also knew that his duties were generally performed by deputies. I did not let him off. He applied to the Court, and was excused.

John Marshall, sworn.

Mr. Harper. Please to inform this honorable Court whether you did, or did not, on the part of Colonel Harvie, make an application for his discharge from the jury, and on what ground that application was made?

Mr. Marshall. I was at the bar when Colonel Harvie, with whom I was intimately acquainted, informed me that he was summoned on the jury. Some conversation passed, in which he expressed his unwillingness to serve, and stated that he was an unfit person; for that his mind was completely made up, that he thought the (sedition) law unconstitutional, and that, whatever the evidence might be, he should find the traverser not guilty; and requested me, on that ground, to apply to the marshal for his discharge. I told the marshal that Colonel Harvie was extremely desirous of being discharged, and, on his discovering great repugnance to his discharge, I informed him that he was predetermined, and that no testimony could alter his opinion. The marshal said that Colonel Harvie might make his excuse to the Court; he observed that he was watched, and to prevent any charge of improper conduct from being brought against him, he should not interfere in discharging any of the jurors who had been summoned. I informed Colonel Harvie of this conversation, and it was then agreed that I should apply to the Court for his discharge, upon the ground of his being sheriff of Henrico County; that his attendance was necessary, as that Court was then in session. I moved the discharge of the juror on that ground, and he was discharged by the Court.

Mr. Randolph. Were you in court during a part of the trial, or during the whole of the trial?

Mr. Marshall. I think I was there only during a part of the time.

Mr. Randolph. Did you observe any thing unusual in the conduct on the part of the counsel towards the Court, or the Court towards the counsel, and what?

Mr. Marshall. There were several circumstances that took place on that trial, on the part both of the bar and the bench, which do not always occur in trials. I would probably be better able to answer the question, if it were made more determinate.

Mr. Randolph. Then I will make the question more particular by asking whether the interruptions of counsel were much more frequent than usual?

Mr. Marshall. The counsel appeared to me to wish to bring before the jury arguments to prove that the sedition law was unconstitutional, and Mr. Chase said that that was not a proper question to go to the jury; and whenever any attempt was made to bring that point before the jury, the counsel for the traverser were stopped. After this there was an argument commenced (I think) by Mr. Hay, but I do not recollect positively, to prove to the judge that the opinion which he had given was not correct in point of law, and that the constitutionality of the law ought to go before the jury; whatever the argument was which Mr. Hay advanced, there was something in it which Judge Chase did not believe to be law, and he stopped him on that point. Mr. Hay still went on, and made some political observations; Judge Chase stopped him again, and the collision ended, by Mr. Hay sitting down, and folding up his papers as if he intended to retire.

Mr. Randolph. There were many preliminary questions, such as, with respect to the continuance of the cause, the admissibility of testimony, &c. Did the interruptions take place on the part of the Court only when the counsel pressed the point of the unconstitutionality of the sedition law?

Mr. Marshall. I believe that it was only at those times, but I do not recollect precisely. I do not remember correctly what passed between the bench and the bar; but it appeared to me that whenever Judge Chase thought the counsel incorrect in their points, he immediately told them so, and stopped them short; but what were the particular expressions that he used, my recollection is too indistinct to enable me to state precisely; what I do state is merely from a general impression which remains on my mind.

Mr. Randolph. Was there any misunderstanding between the counsel and the Court, and what was the cause of that misunderstanding, or what was your opinion as to the cause, or did you form one?

Mr. Marshall. It is impossible for me to assign the particular cause. It began early in the proceedings and increased as the trial progressed. On the part of the judge it seemed to be a disgust with regard to the mode adopted by the traverser’s counsel, at least I speak as to the part which Mr. Hay took on the trial, and it seemed to increase also with him as he went on.

Mr. Randolph. When the Court decided the point that the jury had not a right to decide upon the constitutionality of a law, did the counsel for the traverser begin an argument to convince Judge Chase that the opinion which he had delivered on that point was not well founded? Is it the practice in courts when counsel object to the legality of an opinion given by the Court, to hear the arguments of counsel against such opinion?

Mr. Marshall. If the counsel have not been already heard, it is usual to hear them, in order that they may change or confirm the opinion of the Court, when there is any doubt entertained. There is, however, no positive rule on this subject, and the course pursued by the Court will depend upon circumstances; where a judge believes that the point is perfectly clear and settled, he will scarcely permit the question to be agitated. However, it is considered as decorous on the part of the judge to listen while the counsel abstain from urging unimportant arguments.