Part 159

Mr. CLARK.--Corporations of all kinds, but more particularly ecclesiastical corporations, are objects of my particular hatred. Religion I do not consider of this world. I am no enemy to it, however; I adore it. To try the principle of the bill, I move to strike out the first section.

Mr. SOUTHARD.--I can see no possible objection to an act of incorporation in this as well as other cases. There are many advantages a society of this nature cannot enjoy without incorporation. Donations from the wealthy, who often bequeath sums for the benefit of religion, cannot be held without such incorporation.

Mr. SLOAN.--We have no acts of incorporation in the society in which I was brought up, (the Quakers,) yet we find no difficulty in the management of our affairs--no difficulty in receiving gifts. I abhor all ecclesiastical corporations. Congress never has, and I hope never will, stain its pages with an act of this sort.

Mr. SMILIE.--I hope the gentleman from New Jersey will not frighten himself with the echo of his own words. No evil can result from this act. The opinion of the Quakers is, that no money ought to assist them in their passage to heaven; others believe that money is employed to the best advantage in this way; hence the Quakers never pay those who preach for them, while almost all other classes of Christians do. The gentleman from New Jersey surely does not wish to forbid a clergyman’s payment. I hope that citizens of different persuasions may all have a full enjoyment of their modes of religious worship.

Mr. ELMER.--There never was a nation without religious establishments. All sects, except the Quakers, pay their preachers; and if the preachers among the Quakers have not a direct salary, they find means to obtain something of that kind indirectly, though not from direct funds. Considered in a moral, political, and religious view, these acts of incorporation are highly necessary and proper for the well-being of society.

Mr. CLARK.--This is the first request that has been made to Congress for a religious incorporation; if we check it now, we may check what may hereafter prove an immense evil. It is from small beginnings that great disasters usually rise. Should this bill pass, I foresee what may perhaps in time come to pass. I can foresee the practice of pious frauds. The priests dressed in their canonicals, attending the rich man on his dying bed, and urging the repenting sinner to part with a portion of his wealth for the good of the church, and for the obtainment of a certain passport to heaven.

Mr. FINDLAY.--This is an accommodation Congress only can grant, and which is enjoyed in all the States.

Mr. NICHOLSON.--I never knew an application of this kind to be refused in the State, a part of which I have the honor to represent. In the Legislature of that State, half a dozen applications of this sort would have been granted in the time we have already spent in this unnecessary and shameful debate. Why should we refuse? If a society of Hindoos in the District should make such an application, I should not think of refusing them. If the dying rich man believes the bestowment of a part of his wealth for the benefit of religion will be a deed rendering him more acceptable to heaven, shall he be deprived of this right to give, because another thinks otherwise?

Mr. RHEA, of Tennessee, moved to postpone the consideration of the bill till the 1st of May.

Mr. SMILIE spoke against postponement.

Mr. QUINCY.--I had not intended to open my mouth on a subject that appeared to me so plain; where our duty was so apparent; but the debate has taken so strange a turn that I must make a few remarks. This is a mere civil affair--religion has nothing to do with it, so far as we are concerned in granting or refusing the application. I never knew an application of this kind to be refused--it is an application for the grant of certain powers to a certain number of persons; it is like an application for the incorporation of a bank, or any thing similar. Congress have only to inquire whether or not the ends are proper; whether the powers asked are or are not likely to be injurious. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. CLARK) says, that incorporations of all kinds, particularly ecclesiastical, are objects of his great abhorrence. The objects of his abhorrence must then be very numerous, for they almost every where abound. In Massachusetts nothing can be more common. The incorporation of a religious society is not for the mere purpose of enabling such a society to receive the gifts that may be bequeathed them; the incorporation is for the purpose of enabling a society, or number of persons, to transact their business, to hold property, to sue and be sued, &c. Property they must hold, and, if not held as a corporate body, they must hold it as joint tenants--tenants in common--or they must have trustees to hold it for them, or a part must hold as trustees for the rest; and hence arise innumerable difficulties, litigations, and disagreements--difficulties that will not arise in corporate bodies. You have only to take care, when an act of incorporation is granted, that no powers be granted that may have an injurious effect.

Mr. SOUTHARD.--The incorporation of almost all societies is for the advantage of the public; the incorporation of religious bodies has ever been beneficial to morals and to society at large. It enables them to give and to receive justice; to sue and to be sued. The benefits of incorporation are innumerable; what were society without them? what are we but a corporate body?

The bill passed to a third reading by a large majority.

WEDNESDAY, February 19.

Church in Georgetown.

The bill to incorporate the Trustees of a Presbyterian Church in Georgetown was read a third time.

Mr. ELMER supported, and Messrs. JACKSON, SLOAN, HOLLAND, and RHEA, opposed the bill.

The question was taken by yeas and nays, and the bill passed--yeas 72, nays 40.

THURSDAY, February 20.

Charlestown, (Kanawha,) Virginia.

Mr. CROWNINSHIELD, from the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures, made a report on the petition of sundry inhabitants of Charlestown, Virginia, praying that said place may be made a port of entry and delivery.

The report is detailed, and assigns a variety of reasons against the expediency of granting the prayer of the petitioners, and concludes with a resolution that they have leave to withdraw their petition.

The House having taken the report into consideration--

Mr. JACKSON observed that the facts detailed in the report were conceded. It was probable that there would never be a vessel entered at Charlestown from a foreign country. With regard to the success of the prayer of the petitioners, Mr. J. said he should not have been sanguine, but for a constitutional provision which he considered imperative. No port of entry existed in the western part of Virginia, in consequence of which, vessels sailing from Charlestown were obliged to pay duties at New Orleans. The constitutional provision, to which he alluded, was this: “No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another; nor shall vessels bound to or from one State be obliged to enter, clear, or pay duties in another.” Was it not obvious that a preference was given to the ports of one State over those of another by requiring the vessels of the one, to enter and clear in the ports of the other; and was it not also obvious that the latter part of the provision was equally violated? It would be a great convenience to the petitioners to give bonds and take out clearances in the neighborhood of the place where their vessels are built, instead of being obliged to go to a distance of 2,000 miles, where they would find themselves among strangers.

Mr. CROWNINSHIELD observed that there were several ports of entry already in Virginia from which vessels might clear without paying duties at New Orleans. He further observed that New Orleans and Natchez were not within the limits of a State, and therefore were not embraced by the constitutional provision referred to; and added that duties were only paid on the entry of vessels from a foreign country.

Mr. J. C. SMITH thought there was sufficient plausibility in the remarks of the gentleman from Virginia, to give the subject a full discussion. He therefore moved a reference of the report to a Committee of the whole House on Monday, which was agreed to--yeas 59.

FRIDAY, February 21.

Payment of Witnesses.