Part 314

Mr. SITGREAVES said, he felt every disposition favorable to meet the wishes of the people of the South-western Territory, and for a reason which had been given, viz: that, as they were our fellow-citizens, it was desirable they should equally participate with us in all the advantages of the General Government, and suffer no longer than was necessary the comparative humiliation of a Colonial or Territorial administration; but, from obvious considerations, he thought it highly important that they should be admitted to the enjoyment of these advantages only in conformity with the promise made to them, and on the terms of the compact entered into jointly by the United States and by them. Two constructions of this compact had been contended for; one, that so soon as sixty thousand free inhabitants should be collected within the Territory, they should be entitled to a place in the Union, as an independent State; the other, that Congress should first lay off the Territory into one or more States, according to a just discretion, defining the same by bounds and limits; and that the admission of such States thus defined, should take place as their population respectively amounted to the number of free inhabitants mentioned; that is, that the sixty thousand inhabitants could not claim admission into the Union, unless their number was comprised within a State whose Territorial limits had been previously ascertained by an act of the United States. He inclined to this latter construction, because it was conformable to the letter, and, as he understood it, to the spirit of the instrument. By the act of cession of the State of North Carolina, accepted by Congress, it is provided that the ceded territory should be laid off into one or more States, and that the people of the Territory should be entitled to all the privileges secured to the inhabitants of the Territory north-west of the Ohio, by the ordinance of 1787. The extent of their privileges, therefore, is to be determined by this ordinance, which may be called their charter. They have no other or greater privileges than the inhabitants of the North-western Territory; and it cannot be pretended that these would be entitled to admission into the Union as one State, so soon as their whole number shall amount to sixty thousand, because the ordinance itself divides that country into three separate and distinct States, each of which must contain sixty thousand free inhabitants before it can claim to be received. The actual circumstances and situation of the South-western Territory evinced the reasonableness and propriety of the construction; it is composed of two settlements, the Hoston and the Mero districts, separated from each other by the Cumberland Mountains and a wilderness of two hundred miles in width, which has always been inhabited by the Indians, and the soil and jurisdiction of which have been actually ceded to them by the United States, by late Treaties; and by an examination of the documents on the table it would appear, that when, agreeably to the act of the Territorial Legislature, the officers who took the census put to the people of the Territory the question whether they were desirous of admission into the Union; the inhabitants of the Western or Mero district almost universally answered in the negative. He would not undertake positively to pronounce on the inexpediency of forming the whole country into one State; but under the circumstances which he had stated, and until they should be satisfactorily explained to his mind, it did appear to him that the interest and the wishes of that people required a division of the Territory. It looked somewhat absurd to connect under one permanent Government, people separated from each other by natural barriers, by a distance of two hundred miles, and by a foreign jurisdiction. They had been told, by gentlemen who knew the fact, that during the period of Indian hostility, the people emigrating to the Mero district were obliged to stop five or six weeks at the eastern boundary of the wilderness, until they could collect in companies or caravans of sufficient number and force to pass in safety; the time of hostility may again return, and even a state of peace with Indians is not a state of such tranquillity or security as to preclude the necessity of caution and vigilance on the frontiers. The people of the Western district seem sensible of the inconvenience of an arrangement so unnatural as the one proposed, and so far as their wishes can be collected from the documents before the committee, they desire as yet to preserve their connection with us in its present mode, and to remain under the Territorial Government.

Mr. MACON said, he should be as unwilling to agree to the doctrine of the gentleman from New Jersey, (Mr. DAYTON,) as he was unwilling to agree to his. As to the people of this Territory attaching themselves to any other nation, he should not have thought it could have been suggested. There was no more likelihood of their going over to any other government than there was of any other State doing the same thing.

Mr. GALLATIN said, how the resolution on the table, or the doctrine he had asserted, supported the idea that that Territory would have a right to separate from the Union, he could not see, and he should be glad to be informed. So far from it, his opinion was that if they were a State, they were at the same time a member of the Union; that they could not exist as a State without being one of the United States. The only difference of opinion was whether an act of Congress was necessary previous to their being recognized as such; and if any doctrine could lead to the conclusion of the SPEAKER, it was that of those gentlemen who thought that Congress must form them into a State, several months before they were admitted into the Union. In that intermediary situation, whilst declared a State and not one of the United States, they might, perhaps, claim, as an independent State, a right to reject an admission in the Union. But those consequences could only flow from the doctrine he was combating; the principle he was supporting was that no previous act was necessary, that there could not be two acts upon the subject; but that one and the same act must recognize them as a State and admit them in the Union.

Mr. BLOUNT hoped the original resolution would not be rejected for the sake of the gentleman from New Jersey. He did not wish to give up the right to which these people were entitled; though perhaps the law might not pass the Senate.

Mr. HARPER objected to the mention of the Senate, as to what was likely to be done there. He hoped they should adopt the resolution of the gentleman from New Jersey.

The question was then taken on the original resolution reported by the select committee, and carried by 41 to 35.

The committee rose and the House took up the consideration, when Mr. KITCHELL proposed a resolution in the place of that which had been agreed to in a Committee of the Whole, as he thought some law should be passed by Congress recognizing the Territory as a State, before they were admitted into the Union. It was negatived; and the original resolution was agreed to by 43 to 30, as follows:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne, John Clopton, Jeremiah Crabb, William Findlay, Jesse Franklin, Albert Gallatin, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Andrew Gregg, Wade Hampton, Robert Goodloe Harper, Carter B. Harrison, Jonathan N. Havens, Daniel Heister, James Holland, George Jackson, Matthew Locke, William Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Francis Preston, John Read, Robert Rutherford, Israel Smith, Richard Sprigg, jr., Thomas Sprigg, Absalom Tatom, Philip Van Cortlandt, and Abraham Venable.

NAYS.--Benjamin Bourne, Theophilus Bradbury, Gabriel Christie, Joshua Coit, George Dent, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, Thomas Hartley, Thomas Henderson, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Aaron Kitchell, George Leonard, Samuel Lyman, Francis Malbone, Theodore Sedgwick, Samuel Sitgreaves, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Isaac Smith, William Smith, George Thatcher, Uriah Tracy, John E. Van Allen, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams.

SATURDAY, May 21.

Military Establishment.

The amendments of the Senate to the bill fixing the Military Establishment were read. They went to the retaining the whole number of light dragoons and the Major General, and directing that men should be enlisted for five instead of three years. The amendment respecting the dragoons being under consideration----

Mr. BALDWIN informed the House that the amount of the amendments of the Senate was this, to keep up 320 dragoons instead of 52, and to retain the Major General. It appeared to him that the House, having determined upon these subjects already, would be at no loss to form an opinion upon these amendments.

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped that the amendment from the Senate would not be agreed to. This House had taken great pains to mature the bill, and he was of opinion that the number of troops agreed to was sufficient for a peace establishment. No gentleman had observed to the contrary; any addition would not only be an augmentation to the great expenses already accrued by the late war, but be a mean of retaining in the army useful citizens, who would be otherwise employed in pursuits of much more benefit to the United States.

Mr. W. LYMAN hoped the amendment would be disagreed to.

Mr. S. SMITH said, the Senate seemed to contemplate these light dragoons, on account of the officers, who were to do duty on horse or foot, as necessity required. From this idea, he would suggest the propriety of agreeing to the amendment.

Mr. KITTERA said, the army would be placed so widely from each other, that the horse would prove very useful.

Mr. GILES had no idea of keeping up the horse for the sake of the officers.

Mr. GILBERT was in favor of retaining the whole number of horses.

On motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, the yeas and nays were taken, and the amendment was negatived, 58 to 22.

The consideration of the propriety of retaining the Major General was next taken up.

Mr. NICHOLAS could not conceive any use for generals. He believed if the Senate had struck out the General they sent them, the amendment would have been a good one.

Mr. GILES hoped they should not agree to the amendment. It would be a commencement of sinecures in the Military Department. There would be generals without men to command. He believed the bill, as sent from that House, contained its full proportion of officers.

Mr. S. SMITH was in favor of the amendment. He said the expense would be no great things, and the present Major General would be very necessary in taking possession of the posts. Perhaps, at this time, it was essential to keep this man in command, as, if he were discharged, it might create a derangement in our Army which might be fatal. The command of three thousand men, it was true, was too trifling for a Major General. But, perhaps, as this General had been the victorious means of procuring us peace with the Indians, immediately to discharge him would appear like ingratitude, if not injustice.

Mr. RUTHERFORD concurred in opinion with the gentleman last up.

Mr. W. LYMAN said, they were not now called upon to reward the services of Major General Wayne, but to provide proper officers for their Army. If the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. S. SMITH) were to bring forward a measure of that kind, they should know how to decide upon it. Nor did he think the argument for making the office of a Major General, because the posts were to be received, had much weight. Any other officer would receive them as well as a Major General.

Mr. GILES said, he had no personal objections to the present commander of our Army; but he considered the present proposition such a breach of principle as he could not agree to. It was the making of an office for a man; as the gentleman from Maryland seemed to think the taking possession of the posts the principal business to be performed by him. If the services of this gentleman were necessary on that occasion, he would much rather pass a bill to make him a commissioner for that purpose. All the arguments in favor of a Major General were in favor of the man, and not of the propriety of the office.

Mr. MURRAY said, the gentleman last up must know that the gentleman who had so successfully commanded our Western Army, was now in the service of the United States, yet he would insinuate that there was an intention of creating a new office. There was no disposition in those who wished to retain this meritorious man in service to create new offices. They were now about to make a regular Military Establishment; heretofore it had rather been a nominal one. There had been hitherto a Major General at the head of our corps, and he thought it would be proper to continue the command. There appeared to him a great deal of danger from the instability of their proceedings, an instability often charged upon a Government like ours. He would not attribute this to any other motive than such as were too apt to enter into large deliberative bodies. Was it right that when a man had led our armies to victory, and returned, that he should be immediately stripped of his commission? He thought not. It was said that this was done, because the Army was reduced; but he believed it was now as large as when General Wayne obtained his victory by it, for it was not then more than three thousand men; and yet, because they wished to retain this man in the service of the United States, they were told that they were creating new offices for which there was no necessity.