Part 29

WEDNESDAY, May 6.

JOHN VINING, from Delaware, appeared and took his seat.

The bill for laying a duty on goods, wares, and merchandises imported into the United States, was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

On motion of Mr. SHERMAN, the House entered upon the consideration of the amendments of the Senate to the bill for regulating the time and manner of administering certain oaths.

The following amendments being before them, to wit:

"That the members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers of the several States, who have been heretofore chosen or appointed, or who shall be chosen or appointed before the first day of August next, and who shall then be in office, shall, within one month thereafter, take the same oath or affirmation, except where they shall have taken it before; which may be administered by any person authorized by the law of the State in which such office shall be holden to administer oaths. And the members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers of the several States, who shall be chosen or appointed after the said first day of August, shall, before they proceed to execute the duties of their respective offices, take the foregoing oath or affirmation, which shall be administered by the person or persons who by the law of the State shall be authorized to administer the oath of office; and the person or persons so administering the oath hereby required to be taken shall cause a record or certificate thereof to be made, in the same manner as, by the law of the State, he or they shall be directed to record or certify the oath of office."

Mr. GERRY said, he did not discover what part of the constitution gave to Congress the power of making this provision, except so much of it as respects the form of the oath; it is not expressly given by any clause of the constitution; and if it does exist, must arise from the sweeping clause, as it is frequently termed, in the eighth section of the first article of the constitution, which authorizes Congress "to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or office thereof." To this clause there seems to be no limitation, so far as it applies to the extension of the powers vested by the constitution; but even this clause gives no legislative authority to Congress to carry into effect any power not expressly vested by the constitution. In the constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, provision is made, that the members of the Legislatures of the several States, and all executive and judicial officers thereof, shall be bound by oath to support the constitution. But there is no provision for empowering the Government of the United States, or any officer or department thereof, to pass a law obligatory on the members of the Legislatures of the several States, and other officers thereof, to take this oath. This is made their duty already by the constitution, and no such law of Congress can add force to the obligation; but, on the other hand, if it is admitted that such a law is necessary, it tends to weaken the constitution which requires such aid; neither is any law, other than to prescribe the form of the oath, necessary or proper to carry this part of the constitution into effect; for the oath required by the constitution being a necessary qualification for the State officers mentioned, cannot be dispensed with by any authority whatever other than the people, and the judicial power of the United States, extending to all cases arising in law or equity under this constitution. The Judges of the United States, who are bound to support the constitution, may, in all cases within their jurisdiction, annul the official acts of State officers, and even the acts of the members of the State Legislatures, if such members and officers were disqualified to do or pass such acts, by neglecting or refusing to take this oath. He concluded his observations, by submitting to the House the propriety of appointing a Committee of Conference, to state to the Senate the doubts of the House upon this subject.

Mr. BLAND had no doubt respecting the powers of Congress on this subject. The evident meaning of the words of the constitution implied, that Congress should have the power to pass a law, directing the time and manner of taking the oath prescribed for supporting the constitution. There can be no hesitation respecting the power to direct their own officers, and the constituent parts of Congress; besides, if the State Legislatures were to be left to arrange and direct this business, they would pass different laws, and the officers might be bound in different degrees to support the constitution. He not only thought Congress had the power to do what was proposed by the Senate, but he judged it expedient also, and therefore should agree to the amendment.

Mr. JACKSON.--I believe this House, and the other branch of the Legislature, have the power, by the constitution, to pass a law, obliging the officers of the State Governments to take the oath required by the constitution that their States have adopted, and which has become the supreme law of the land. I believe the general opinion of the House inclines to favor this sentiment. It then only remains to examine the measure on the principle of policy. Here I must give my opinion. I believe, sir, that it is not time to bring it forward, that it is not expedient at present, because some jealousies exist respecting the jurisdiction of the Federal and State Governments. The States had better be left to regulate this matter among themselves, for an oath that is not voluntary is seldom held sacred. Compelling people to swear to support the constitution, will be like the attempts of Britain, during the late revolution, to secure the fidelity of those who fell within the influence of her arms, and, like those attempts, they will be frustrated; the moment the party could get from under her wings, the oath of allegiance was disregarded. If the State officers will not willingly pay this testimony of their attachment to the constitution, what is extorted from them against their inclination is not much to be relied on. Besides, it argues a jealousy in the National Government, which can have no foundation. Can any thing show more friendly to the Union than adopting the constitution, and sending us here to administer it? If we judge from these circumstances, there is good reason to believe that the State Governments will pay a proper attention to the duty enjoined upon them by the constitution. I shall readily agree, if they do not pay this attention, that the National Legislature ought to exercise its powers to compel them; but they know the necessity there is for conforming to what the constitution orders; if they neglect it, it becomes in some degree a relinquishment of their power in government. No State Legislature can pass an act that will have the efficacy of a law. Suppose a judge on the bench were to condemn a criminal to die for an offence; the sentence could not be carried into execution, if the judge had omitted to qualify himself for the discharge of the duties of his office. In short, there would be a total stagnation of the Government, its vital powers would be suspended, until they were revived by the action of the constitution. Besides, the constitution partakes of the nature of a compact; it guaranties to the State Governments the principles of a republican government, conditionally, that the States conform themselves to what is declared in the constitution; they must therefore take the oath directed by the constitution, or infringe the compact; in which case I apprehend, the guaranty is virtually withdrawn; this is another inducement for the States to perform their duty.

Mr. LAWRENCE.--I believe, Mr. Speaker, if there is any thing improper in making provision that the officers shall take an oath to support the Government, the fault cannot properly be charged upon us, because the provision is already made, and adopted by our constituents; and we are to suppose that some beneficial effects were intended by it; while we are reprobating the measure, let us take care we do not fall under the censure, which the observation of the gentleman last up brought to our view, of taking an oath, and neglecting to fulfil the duties enjoined by it. I believe, sir, that the persons who are to take this oath in conformity to the constitution, will conceive themselves, after having taken such oath, under an obligation to support the constitution. It has been said by one gentleman, that Congress have not the power to carry this regulation into effect. Only a few words will be necessary to convince gentlemen that Congress have this power. It is declared by the constitution, that its ordinances shall be the supreme law of the land. If the constitution is the supreme law of the land, every part of it must partake of this supremacy; consequently, every general declaration it contains is the supreme law. But then these general declarations cannot be carried into effect, without particular regulations adapted to the circumstances. These particular regulations are to be made by Congress, who, by the constitution, have power to make all laws necessary or proper to carry the declarations of the constitution into effect. The constitution likewise declares, that the members of the State Legislatures, and all officers, executive and judicial, shall take an oath to support the constitution. This declaration is general, and it lies with the supreme Legislature to detail and regulate it. The law is to supply the necessary means of executing the principle laid down; for how can it be carried into effect in any other manner? This explanation, I trust, convinces gentlemen that the power of enacting such a law exists in Congress. But whether it is good policy or not to do it, depends upon a variety of circumstances; for my own part, I think it prudent to make the necessary regulations for carrying into effect this part of the constitution.

Mr. SYLVESTER.--I am an advocate for supporting the dignity of the House, and to me it appears somewhat inconsistent that we should change our sentiments in order to conform to the amendment of the Senate, without knowing the reason upon which they have founded the proposed measure. No doubt but sufficient reasons have occurred to them, but none have appeared to this House. If we are to follow the Senate in all the alterations they propose, without hearing reasons to induce a change, our time in deliberation is taken up unnecessarily. With respect to any member of this House who has not taken the oath, I concur that they are to pay obedience to what the authority of the Legislature may order on this head. Nay, I am equally clear that the power to regulate the members of the State Governments in taking the oath, is either lodged with the Congress of the United States, or nowhere. But, it appears to me, that the State Legislatures have a concurrent power with Congress in this regulation, for the officers of the General Government and State Governments are called upon in the same manner: "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath, or affirmation, to support the constitution." These are the words of that instrument. The question, then, is reduced to its expediency, whether it is good policy to exercise the power or not? I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, if we exercise this power, it may be considered an interference with the State Governments. I would rather leave them to their discretion, trusting they would come forward and take the oath; it is unnecessary for us to intermeddle, if they will conform to what is directed by the constitution. It appears to me most prudent, that, till we see a disposition in the State Governments to neglect this duty, we do not, by law, oblige them to perform it. I wish the Government to go on gradually in administering the constitution, and not give umbrage even to its enemies, by a compulsory act, when there appears no necessity for it.

I could not concur in the amendment proposed by the Senate, even if I considered it not inconsistent in the House to adopt a measure they had previously rejected, unless some good reasons were offered to show its propriety; not but if I have been mistaken, I am always ready to retract my error, upon better information.

Mr. SHERMAN was not afraid of being charged with inconsistency. He had voted against a similar clause when the bill was before the House, but he was convinced now of its propriety; he thought it more eligible to have a general provision for taking the oath, than particular ones. It also appeared necessary to point out the oath itself, as well as the time and manner of taking it. No other Legislature is competent to all these purposes; but, if they were, there is a propriety in the supreme Legislature's doing it. At the same time, if the State Legislatures take it up, it cannot operate disagreeably upon them, to find all their neighboring States obliged to join them in supporting a measure they approve. What a State Legislature may do, will be good as far as it goes; on the same principle, the constitution will apply to each individual of the State officers--they may go, without the direction of the State Legislature, to a justice, and take the oath voluntarily. This, I suppose, would be binding upon them. But this is not satisfactory; the Government ought to know that the oath has been properly taken, and this can only be done by a general regulation. If it is in the discretion of the State Legislatures to make laws to carry the declaration of the constitution into execution, they have the power of refusing, and may avoid the positive injunctions of the constitution. As our power in this particular extends over the whole Union, it is most proper for us to take the subject up, and make the proper provision for carrying it into execution, according to the intention of the constitution.

Mr. BOUDINOT wished to remove the gentleman's objections arising from inconsistency. The clause that was rejected by the Committee of the Whole on this bill, contained a penalty for the neglect of taking the oath as prescribed; but the amendment of the Senate was not objectionable on that account, because it contained no such provision.

As to the policy or expediency of the messure, he entertained not the least doubt respecting it. The constitution said only that the officers of Government should be bound by oath, leaving to Congress to say what oath. In short it was the duty of the House, as had been well said by the gentleman from New York, (Mr. LAWRENCE,) to detail the general principles laid down in the constitution, and reduce them to practice.

He would enforce the expediency of the measure with one further remark. Several of the State Legislatures were sitting at this time, and had expressed a wish or expectation that such a regulation would be made by the General Government; if from principles of false policy the measure did not take place, the State Legislatures might neglect it also, and it was well known that their officers cannot act without it; hence the legality of their acts may be called in question, and give cause to a great deal of uneasiness and confusion.

The question on concurring with the Senate in their amendments to the bill was carried, with an amendment, that the members of the State Legislatures be directed to take the oath at their next session respectively.

The bill was, by order of the House, returned to the Senate as amended.

THURSDAY, May 7.

Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States, to know when it will be convenient for him to receive the address of this House, reported:

That the committee had, according to order, waited on the President, and that he signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive the said address at 12 o'clock on Friday, at such place as the House shall be pleased to appoint: Whereupon,

Resolved, That as the Chamber designed for the President's receiving the respective Houses is not yet prepared, this House will wait on the President to present their address, in the room adjacent to the Representatives' Chamber.

Duties on Tonnage.

The House resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee of the Whole on the duty on tonnage. The proposition was to lay a duty of fifty cents per ton, on all vessels belonging wholly or in part to the subjects of all other Powers.

Mr. MADISON moved to reduce it to forty cents, and at the end of the year 1790, to increase it to seventy-five cents. He was satisfied to go as far as seventy-five, because he expected, under such encouragement, a sufficient number of vessels for the whole commerce of America might be constructed. If he was not too sanguine in this expectation, the measure would be both safe and expedient.

Mr. SMITH, (of Maryland.)--Both in Virginia and Maryland, British ships pay a higher duty than what is proposed; yet they continue to carry on an extensive trade in those States, which, in my opinion, proves those sums to be too low. American shipping derives considerable advantages from the regulations made in this respect by those two States. If that protection is withdrawn from them by the General Government, it will subject our commerce to very great inconveniences and absolute distress. I shall therefore be opposed to the reduction.

Mr. AMES.--The gentlemen from the southward, who suppose their States most likely to be affected by a discrimination in the tonnage duty, have concluded their arguments with a candor, which I conceive does honor to their patriotism. They declare themselves willing to encourage American shipping and commerce, though they do not join with us in the sum we think necessary to be laid on foreign tonnage to accomplish so important an object. If sufficient encouragement is given, and by our regulation American vessels are put on a footing with foreigners, I think we may flatter ourselves with the prospect of seeing our navigation immediately flourish. We have reason to expect a very considerable addition to our shipping in the course of one year. Experience has convinced us, that 25,000 tons can be built within double that period, by the town of Boston alone. The other ports in Massachusetts can furnish 37,000 tons, New Hampshire a considerable quantity, and if the other States furnish their proportion, we shall soon find ourselves independent of European nations for the transportation of our products. If forty cents at present, and the seventy-five cents in expectation, are thought a sufficient encouragement for the purpose, I shall not object to the motion.

Mr. FITZSIMONS.--If it is intended to increase the duty at the expiration of two years, it is certainly proper to reduce it in the interim; but I very much question such policy. The business of ship-building, I conceive, stands at this moment in want of the greatest encouragement in our power to give. If sufficient encouragement is given, at this time, to produce a quantity of shipping adequate to the demand, when we once are in possession of them, the business will stand in need of no further encouragement. If the citizens of the United States were now in possession of a sufficient quantity of shipping, and had the ability to employ them, I conceive they would not stand in need of any encouragement whatever. But this is not the case, and therefore an encouragement is requisite. At the conclusion of the last war we were left without shipping, and from our inability to carry on commerce, by reason of the oppression we were subjected to by foreign powers, the building of vessels has made but slow progress in the several States. Hence it becomes necessary to give encouragement sufficient to induce merchants to vest a greater proportion of their capital in this way. The proposed encouragement is not very high, and even under it, I should not expect a quantity of shipping would be furnished equal to the demand, in less than four or five years. It would be brought forward by slow and gradual degrees; they will continue, year by year, to increase them, until the number is competent to the demand. The business of ship-building being so relaxed, persons of that occupation have turned to other avocations, and some sensible advantage must appear, to induce them to return to their original profession. A proof of this is evidenced by the situation of Philadelphia. Before the Revolution, 5,000 tons of shipping were annually built in that city; last year, the whole tonnage was but 1,300, so much has it declined there. If it revives from its present languishing condition, it must be by great fostering care and protection, and by slow and gradual degrees. It does not appear to me, that fifty cents are more than necessary for its immediate encouragement. Gentlemen will be pleased to recollect that it is always in the power of Congress to increase it.