Part 275

Resolved, That Charles Whitney be discharged from the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms.

This, also, was agreed to.

FRIDAY, January 8.

JEREMIAH CRABB, from Maryland, appeared, was qualified, and took his seat.

Indian Trading Houses.

The House went into Committee of the Whole, Mr. MUHLENBERG in the chair, on the bill to establish trading houses for the Indian tribes.

Mr. DAYTON objected to the bill, so far as it empowers those who are to sell the goods to the Indians, to procure or purchase the goods. He considered the uniting these powers in the same persons as highly exceptionable and liable to great abuse. He moved to strike out the words "procure or."

Mr. PARKER said that the objection was misapplied, for subsequent clauses placed the business under the special direction of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. He should not, however, object to striking out the words. His view in rising was merely to justify the committee who reported the bill, as they had supposed that sufficient guards were provided.

Mr. GILES did not think the reason given for retaining the words sufficient. The PRESIDENT cannot be supposed to have such cognizance of every part of this business as will enable him to secure the public, or Indians, from imposition. He was for increasing the checks against abuse.

The motion for striking out was agreed to.

In the third section, Mr. SEDGWICK objected to the words "laying aside all view of gain by the trade." They might operate disadvantageously to the people of the United States, if Government should enter into this trade on a principle that would preclude all private adventures in the same line by citizens. The words were expunged.

Mr. PARKER presented a substitute. It relates to compensation of agents and clerks to be employed. The sum of ---- dollars was to be appropriated. The substitute was adopted by the committee.

In the seventh section, Mr. SEDGWICK moved an amendment, providing for the forfeiture of licenses in case of contravening the provisions of the law. This motion was withdrawn in order to introduce the provision elsewhere.

Mr. MILLEDGE moved to strike out the whole of this seventh section. It appeared to him to involve provisions which would be proper in another law, but in this bill blended two different subjects.

Mr. SEDGWICK considered the provisions in this section referring to certain rules for regulating the public trade with the Indians, as proper, since similar rules would be made in regulating the trade of individuals with Indians. On this ground he was for retaining the section.

It was moved to modify the section by confining the provisions to "the agents or clerks," specially employed by the United States. This amendment was agreed to.

On the motion of Mr. SEDGWICK, the last clause of the seventh section, relative to the oath or affirmation, was expunged.

The committee then rose; the Chairman reported the bill with the amendments, which were taken up, and agreed to by the House, with one verbal amendment.

Mr. SWIFT expressed his disapprobation of the bill. He thought the object unattainable to any important extent. He disapproved of public bodies being concerned in trade. It is always managed better by individuals. Great loss and dilapidation are the consequence; nor is it possible to guard against frauds and abuses. The public have no money to spare. It is the opinion of the Committee of Ways and Means, that additional taxes will be necessary for the public service. We must not tax our constituents for the sake of trading with the Indians. He hoped not. Mr. S. concluded by a motion for striking out the first section.

Mr. PARKER supported the principle of the bill; he wished a fair experiment to be made. The plan is founded on humanity and benevolence. It has been recommended by the PRESIDENT from year to year. Mr. P., on this subject, had been in sentiment with him. It was well-known he had never lightly advocated a disbursement of public money; on this occasion, it would be a saving of public money. It will cost much less to conciliate the good opinion of the Indians than to pay men for destroying them.

Mr. HILLHOUSE was in favor of an experiment. Much had been anticipated from the plan; a beginning had been made, and he thought it best to try it for such a length of time as would afford a fair experiment of what could be done.

Mr. SWANWICK said he was in favor of the principles of the bill, were it merely as a change from our usual system of Indian affairs. We have hitherto pursued war at an expense of a million and a half of dollars nearly annually; let us now try the fruits of commerce, that beneficent power which cements and civilizes so many nations; barbarous till they became acquainted with its influence. To encourage us, indeed, a fact has come to our knowledge on the investigation of the case of Randall. Gentlemen will remember his assertions to them, and the deed read in the House, in which so much was stated of the influence of the Canada traders over the Indians: well, let us try to balance or countervail this influence; but it has been observed, our private citizens will do this sufficiently in the way of their private trade. In general I am friendly to let commerce take its own level without Governmental interference; but the little influence our traders have yet obtained, shows plainly enough defective capital or a defective extent of trade; both are to be apprehended. So many objects of speculation offer in this country, that individuals may not pay sufficient attention to this branch, in which they have so powerful a British interest to contend with. Government, alone, can do this in the infancy of the commerce. Let the experiment be made; we can lose little by it; we may gain a great deal. It has been observed, that this act has been rejected in three different sessions of Congress already; and this is argued as a proof of its want of merit; but this has been the fate in England of the navigation act; it was hundreds of years struggling to get into existence, but was not the less acceptable when at last it succeeded. Perhaps we may find this bill, on experience, none the worse for the difficulties, which, as an untried step, it has hitherto had to encounter: it is recommended by general reasoning; let us try it; we can only repeal it if we find it does not answer the sanguine expectations entertained of it.

Mr. MACON was opposed to the bill. He thought the circumstance of the business having been so long in agitation, was a reason why it should be longer considered. The reason for delay was certainly not weakened by that. The business was highly improper for Government to embark in.

Mr. MURRAY had but one idea to suggest, as it was unnecessary to go over the general policy, which had been amply stated by other gentlemen. There appeared to him two objects; first, the securing the Indian friendship by a supply of their wants; second, the supplanting the British traders in their influence over the tribes whose hostilities might embarrass us. To the last object, therefore, the meditated mode of supply by public agency was peculiarly well adapted. The Indians are now supplied by a great company long established, very wealthy, and possessing this influence, in which we must supplant them. We are to consider whether, if private individuals are left to be the only competitors with the Canada company, this influence and this trade will be transferred agreeably to sound policy. He thought they would not. Small capitalists, and adventurers young in this trade, would certainly prove unequal to a competition with so well established and rich a company as the Canada company. It was no uncommon thing for great companies, when they were apprehensive of what they would call interlopers, to crush all competition by making a voluntary sacrifice of a few thousand pounds sterling. By underselling, on a large scale, for a time, and even a certain loss, they secured themselves in future from competition. This great company can afford to pay this price for the perpetuity of this trade and influence. In order to meet the capital of this company, we must not trust to individual small capitalists. By a sum appropriated by Government to the object, however large the capital in competition in Canada, the Government will be able to beat down the trade of this company and place it in American hands; and in a few years after the competition has ceased, the Government may then withdraw its agency, and leave it to private capitals, to which the field will then have been rendered easy.

The motion of Mr. SWIFT was negatived; and the bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading.

WEDNESDAY, January 19.

Appropriations for 1796.

The House went into Committee of the Whole on the bill making appropriations for the support of Government in the year 1796.