Part 114

Mr. BENSON said, that an honorable gentleman (Mr. SMITH) had remarked that he had not attempted to answer the objections which were made to the Chief Justice's being designated to fill the vacancy, and had drawn the conclusion that the objections were unanswerable. He was sensible that there might and would be objections to any officer that could be mentioned; but those against the Chief Justice he did not think unanswerable. It had been objected that there would be an impropriety in his condemning as Chief Justice, and pardoning as President. But something like this is frequently the case. He supposed that whoever exercised the office of Chief Magistrate would for the time resign his first office. He only mentioned this to show that the objections made to the Chief Justice had not been answered because they were deemed unanswerable. But his wish was to see the vacancy filled by an independent officer; he had, therefore, no objection to the President of the Senate pro tem.

Mr. JACKSON moved that the consideration of this business be postponed, which was agreed to. The committee rose and reported.

FRIDAY, January 21.

Duty on Spirits.

The House resumed the consideration of the new Revenue Bill.

Mr. JACKSON proposed an amendment, by adding a clause to prevent inspectors, or any officers under them, from interfering, either directly or indirectly, in elections, further than giving their own votes, on penalty of forfeiting their offices.

This being seconded,

Mr. SHERMAN said, he should propose an addition to the amendment, and that was to extend the prohibition to every other person whatever. He supposed that to practise the arts of electioneering would be as criminal in persons in general as in the officers of the revenue; but if any provision is necessary in the case, he thought it might be made in some other bill.

Mr. LIVERMORE approved the motion. These officers, said he, will hold their places under the Government, and, from the duties assigned them, will acquire such a knowledge of persons and characters, as will give them great advantages, and enable them to influence elections to a great degree. He thought the proposition important, and merited the attention of the House.

Mr. VINING observed, that the motion went to disfranchise a great number of citizens of the rights of suffrage. It appeared to him, also, to be unconstitutional, as it will deprive them of speaking and writing their minds; a right of which no law can divest them. He offered some observations on the eligibility of the duty now contemplated, in preference to direct taxes; and then urged the bad policy of rendering the law odious, by fixing a stigma on the officers appointed to execute it.

Mr. JACKSON replied to the observations against his motion. He said the experience of Great Britain showed the propriety of the prohibition. He read a section from a law passed in the reign of William and Mary on the subject. A law was found necessary in that country to prevent the interference of excise officers in elections, though the excise law then in existence was only for ten years, and that now before us is a perpetual law; for it is to exist till the whole State debts are extinguished. He denied that it was a disfranchisement of the citizens; they will have the same right to vote at the elections as other citizens; it only goes to defining an offence, which may be of pernicious consequence. Did I consider it as depriving the citizens of the rights of suffrage, I would be the last to vote for it. He adverted particularly to the dangerous influence that some future President would acquire, by virtue of the power which he will possess of removing these officers. He read some clauses from the British Excise Law, to show its resemblance to the law now under consideration. He added some strictures on the bill, and regretted that it had not been recommitted; but to render it less odious and mischievous he strongly urged the necessity of the section he had proposed.

Mr. BENSON said, there appeared to him to be an absurdity to say a man shall forfeit an office which he holds during pleasure.

Mr. GERRY objected to the motion, because he thought it did not go far enough; it ought to extend to all other revenue officers. He gave a short account of the nature of civil government; no form, said he, is stationary, they are always verging either to Democracy or Monarchy, or to Aristocracy and Despotism. From hence, he drew an inference favorable to a provision which should tend to abate and lessen the influence of the Executive power in certain cases.

Mr. AMES objected to the motion. He said, the circumstances of this country and Great Britain were not similar. That country is without a constitution; the United States are blessed with one, which defines the rights of the electors and the elected; rights of which they cannot be deprived. The law which the gentleman referred to was not passed till the abuses it was intended to remedy had arisen to an enormous height. If ever there should be a necessity for a similar law in this country, which he by no means expected, it will then be time enough to make the regulation; but this clause will muzzle the mouths of freemen, and take away the use of their reason.

Mr. BLOODWORTH replied to Mr. AMES. He observed, that corruptions had taken place; elections have been influenced, and human nature being the same, the same evils are to be expected. He thought it would be best to prevent the evil if possible by enacting a law in season, and not wait till the mischief is done.

Mr. SENEY was in favor of the clause. He thought it would be a salutary provision, and no infringement on the rights of the people, as it would be optional to accept the offices or not, with this restriction.

Mr. STONE was in favor of the motion. He observed, that it was a painful consideration that a number of citizens should be disfranchised, and deprived of their reason and speech, but this is a dilemma to which we shall be reduced by means of this excise law; we must either deprive the excise officers of this privilege of interfering, or give up the freedom of elections.

Mr. VINING controverted the oft-repeated observation, that there was an analogy between the two countries, Great Britain and America. He urged an acceleration of the bill; delays he thought did not produce conviction, they only serve to inflame; he hoped the clause would not be agreed to, nor the bill recommitted.

Mr. LAWRENCE was sorry that there were so many impediments thrown in the way of this bill. He could wish that the clause might be deferred, and made the subject of a separate discussion. He objected to it as not extensive enough. It ought to include all the officers of the Government. At present, he should waive any further remarks, but hoped the motion would not be agreed to at this time, but wished that the bill might be finished.

Mr. SEDGWICK opposed the motion. He said, the natural tendency would be to render the law odious; to deprive the Government of the services of the best men in our country. Let me ask gentlemen, if they, or any of their connections, would accept an appointment under this law, with such an exceptionable clause in it? He observed on the total difference in the circumstances of this country and those of Great Britain; and asked, shall we transplant the corrupt maxims of that country to this? I hope we shall not.

Mr. GERRY replied to the several objections which had been offered against the motion. It will be too late, said he, when the evil takes place to apply the remedy. The President will then have it in his power to influence the elections in such manner as to procure a Legislature that would not consent to a law for applying a remedy.

Mr. AMES reprobated the motion in very pointed terms, as impolitic in respect to the law, as repugnant to the constitution, and as degrading to human nature. Besides, he observed, that it was nugatory in itself, because it goes to deprive the citizens of an inalienable right, which you cannot take from them, nor can they divest themselves of it.

Mr. JACKSON made a short reply to Mr. AMES. He observed, that he had always supposed that the English nation possessed a constitution, and that the violation of the freedom of elections was the greatest infringement on that constitution.

Mr. SHERMAN observed, that this motion went to create a positive offence. He said he could not conceive any reason why this offence should be chargeable on one description of officers only; he thought it ought to go through, and include every class. He replied to the several objections arising from the influence of the President; and observed, that fixing such a stigma would oblige the President to appoint mean and ordinary characters--characters fit to make tools of; for persons of credit and respectability will not accept of appointments under such a disqualification.

The question was determined in the negative, the yeas and nays being as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Floyd, Gerry, Grout, Hathorn, Heister, Jackson, Livermore, Mathews, Moore, Parker, Rensselaer, Seney, Sylvester, Stone, Tucker, and White--21.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Bourne, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Foster, Gale, Gilman, Goodhue, Griffin, Giles, Hartley, Huntington, Lawrence, Lee, Leonard, Madison, P. Muhlenberg, Schureman, Scott, Sedgwick, Sevier, Sherman, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Steele, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, Williamson, and Wynkoop--37.

THURSDAY, January 27.