Part 100

Mr. GERRY.--In discussing this subject yesterday, I made use of such arguments as appeared to me pertinent to the occasion. But, sir, those arguments have had the most extraordinary construction put on them by the gentleman from Delaware; they have been represented as tending to excite mobs, and to raise insurrections in this city. Sir, I insist that the observations I made had a direct contrary tendency. I said that the bill contained those malignant principles which had a direct tendency to agitate and inflame the minds of the citizens of America. Those principles I was endeavoring to expose, and to show what must be their obvious effects. Is this exciting mobs? Directly the reverse, in my opinion. I never had any such idea; and as to the citizens of New York, I have too just a sense of their wisdom and good judgment to harbor such a sentiment. He then adverted to the constitution, to show that there could be no danger of an insurrection or rebellion against the Government. Congress is vested with a sufficient power to protect themselves from every insult whatever; they have a right to call forth the whole militia of the Union for their protection. [Here Mr. G. was called to order, and some altercation ensuing, Mr. G. said he would say nothing farther on this particular topic.] He then proceeded to state his arguments against the Potomac, in the course of which he noticed some observations which had fallen from Messrs. VINING and CLYMER. One of the gentlemen had said that "Pennsylvania had a right to the seat of the General Government." This he denied; he said no State in the Union could pretend to such a right; Congress alone has a right to determine where the seat of Government shall be. He entered into a lengthy discussion on the merits of the Potomac, and among other observations asserted that taking so southern a situation would amount to a disqualification of many of the Northern members, who would forego their election rather than attend the National Legislature on that river.

Mr. VINING read a report of a committee of the late Congress, respecting two seats of Government, in which report Georgetown was mentioned. Mr. GERRY, being one of this committee, rose to explain.

Mr. SEDGWICK, in a speech of considerable length, stated his objections to so southern a situation as either Baltimore or the Potomac, and said that he should have the unhappiness, he feared, of dividing on the question from his colleagues.

Mr. SHERMAN offered some calculations respecting distances, and made Baltimore to be the nearest to the centre of any other place that had been mentioned.

Mr. WHITE said, he had no idea of altering the sentiments of a single member of the committee; he did not expect the gentleman from New Hampshire would agree with him. The gentleman from Massachusetts had said something about the Government going into the wilderness; he said it was true that there was not at present every accommodation which gentlemen might wish; but there is every probability that there will be. He said that such improvements were making in the navigation of the Potomac as will render it a place affording every accommodation whether Congress go there or not. He instanced several places on the Potomac which were at this day sufficiently populous to accommodate Congress. He then adverted to situations, and observed that a line from the Atlantic, east and west, to the extreme point mentioned in the bill, will intersect the State of New Jersey, include the whole of Delaware and Maryland, and will throw thirty-one members of the representation in the southern division of the United States. He then observed, that after the present ferment is subsided, this position will be considered as a permanent bond of union; and the Eastern States will find their most essential interests promoted by the measure. He adverted to the trade of Massachusetts, which he said was greater to Virginia than to the whole Union besides; the Southern States will be cordial in promoting their shipping and advancing their interests, when they observe that the principles of justice influence them on this great national question.

He then remarked on the observation of Mr. SHERMAN respecting the repealing of the law, and reprobated the principles on which such observations are founded; he remarked on the attraction of populous cities, and trusted that other ideas would prevail in this country than what influenced in fixing the seats of Government in Europe.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said, he was in favor of the motion, as the only one which held out a probability of ever fixing on a southern residence. He enlarged on the difficulty and improbability of ever removing from Philadelphia. He said that it was evident, from the present representation, and what is most likely it will be ten years hence, that Congress could not be removed from that place. He then stated the number of the members to the southward and northward of Philadelphia, and observed that the Congress that would exist at the expiration of ten years may think entirely different from the present, and will not think themselves bound by the law; but if they should, what can the measure be denominated but legislating for the next century? A system proposed the last session, which combined a much greater interest than the present, failed; and what reason have we to suppose that this bill will ever be carried into execution? He said no gentleman pretends that the place proposed is now ready for the reception of the Government; and even if the buildings were now erected, is there any gentleman who would give his vote for going there? He would agree to a place in the neighborhood of Baltimore, and this he supposed was the furthest southern position the gentlemen from the eastward will ever consent to. From all the views he could take of the measure, he was fully convinced that the Potomac was tacked to the bill merely to carry Philadelphia; he wished gentlemen seriously to consider the consequences of passing a law which would so intimately and inauspiciously affect the interests of so many people.

Mr. MADISON objected to the motion for inserting Baltimore, as it would be risking the bill with a place which has already been repeatedly rejected by the Senate; he religiously believed, he said, that if Baltimore was inserted the bill would never pass the Senate; and the fate of the bill which the gentleman mentions ought to be a serious warning to us never to risk this with an amendment; the instance, therefore, produced by the gentleman, is very much against his own argument.

The question being put for striking out the word "Potomac," and inserting "Baltimore," it was negatived--37 to 23.

THURSDAY, July 8.

General Post Office.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to the bill to establish the Post Office and post roads within the United States.

The first amendment was to strike out the first and second sections, which specified and established the several roads, and to insert a clause empowering the Postmaster General, under the direction of the President of the United States, to establish them.

A concurrence in this amendment was opposed by Messrs. BLOODWORTH, WHITE, STEELE, LIVERMORE, HARTLEY, and GERRY.

It was said, that it was delegating the power of legislation to the Supreme Executive in one of the most important points that could be mentioned. The revenue also will centre in the hands of the Executive; and in process of time this revenue may be converted into an engine destructive to the liberties of the United States; for as it is a perpetual law, and as the time may, and probably will come, when the Executive may be corrupt, as the revenue increases, the officers of the department will be increased, and we do not know to what extent the consequences may be carried. It is unconstitutional, as that expressly reserves the power of establishing Post Offices and post roads to the Legislature. It was further observed, it would be throwing a burden upon the President which he cannot execute with any convenience to himself, and, from his situation, with satisfaction to the people. The representatives of the people, who come from all parts of the United States, must be supposed to have a more competent knowledge of the proper places for establishing post roads than the Postmaster General.

A concurrence was advocated by Mr. PARTRIDGE, and Mr. SEDGWICK.

It was said, that upon an accurate calculation it was found that the roads proposed by the bill as it passed the House, are so numerous, that so far from affording a revenue, they will prove a great burden to the United States. The circumstances of the country are continually changing; the seats of Government in the several States are removed from their ancient situations to one hundred miles' distance; to accommodate the people in such cases, old routes must be discontinued and new roads opened, which will be a perpetual source of legislation and unnecessary expense. This business was left to the Postmaster General by the late Congress, and very few complaints were heard; the Postmaster General, by his office, must be the most competent judge, as the business will be a principal object of his attention, and actual surveys of the roads will be made by his assistants in all parts of the United States; but if the responsibility of this officer is divided into sixty-five parts, every one of which has its own particular convenience in view, it must appear evident that all responsibility is entirely dissipated. As to the unconstitutionality, it was said that the bill proposes no more in the present instance than is provided for in the other Executive Departments; the principles of conducting the business are established by the House; the mode of carrying those principles into execution is left with the Executive, and this of necessity is done in almost every case whatever. The House adjourned without coming to a vote.

FRIDAY, July 9.

Seat of Government.

The House proceeded to consider the bill sent from the Senate for the establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government of the United States.

Mr. BOUDINOT, after expressing his disapprobation of the bill generally, moved that the Potomac should be struck out and the Delaware inserted, and called for the yeas and nays; after some debate, this motion was negatived, as follows:

YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Huntington, Hathorn, Leonard, Lawrence, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer, Trumbull, Schureman, Sherman, Sylvester, Sturges, Sedgwick, Wadsworth--22.

NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gilman, Heister, Hartley, Jackson, Gale, Griffin, P. Muhlenberg, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Page, Parker, Lee, Steele, Scott, Sinnickson, Stone, Sevier, Seney, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, Thatcher, Tucker, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop--39.

Mr. AMES moved to strike out Potomac and insert Germantown, as the permanent residence. Yeas 22, nays 39.

Variation--Mr. GILMAN, yea; Mr. TRUMBULL, nay.

Mr. SMITH (of Maryland) moved to strike out Potomac and insert between the Potomac and Susquehanna. Yeas 25, nays 36.

Variation--Messrs. SMITH, (of Maryland,) SMITH, (of South Carolina,) TRUMBULL, and THATCHER, yea; Mr. SHERMAN, nay.

Mr. LAWRENCE moved to strike out Potomac and insert Baltimore.