Part 15

Whitelocke. I was very sorry for your Excellence's want of health, both in regard of my affection to your person, and in respect of the protraction of my business; yet I was glad that your son, my Lord Eric, was appointed to confer with me, and had rather have the transaction of my business by yourself or some of your family than by any other. I am now come to you to confer upon those articles which yesterday I received from you.

Then Whitelocke gave the Chancellor a paper of his animadversions upon his articles. The debate began upon the ninth article; and as to the sale of goods taken from enemies and prohibiting the buying of arms, the Chancellor said this would abolish their trade, and would be of no advantage to England, because those arms, and equally as good, might be had from other places; and if the English did light upon them, they would have the benefit by it. Whitelocke said it would be a great inconvenience to furnish the enemies of either nation with arms which could not be had elsewhere than in England or Sweden, and that this clause would put a bridle in the mouths of the enemies of either nation. The Chancellor and his son replied that arms might be had in the province of Liege, and in many other places in Germany; that Sweden scarce afforded any other commodities but arms, or such things as were serviceable for war; and that the Queen would by no means be induced to that clause as Whitelocke would have it.

Then they debated upon the eleventh article, the issue whereof was for Whitelocke to consent to a special designation of prohibited goods. Whitelocke desired that the catalogue and designation of them might be referred to his return into England, and he would agree that within two months after that there should be a specification of prohibited goods in the name of the Protector.

The Chancellor urged that the specification might be now agreed upon, and produced a paper specifying them, which they alleged was delivered by the Council in England unto Bonnele. Whitelocke said he did not remember the same, and that he was ignorant what goods were prohibited by the Dutch placard, which was fit to be known before any specification made by him.

Upon the twelfth article Whitelocke urged, that as to the form of the letters of safe-conduct, it might also be referred to his return into England. They produced a form exhibited by Lagerfeldt to the Council in England, and desired that the same form might be now agreed upon. Whitelocke answered that the Council of State had not approved the form given in by Lagerfeldt, and therefore it was not fit for him to consent to it; nor could he apprehend any reason why they should not consent to refer the agreement of a form unto his return to England; and the rather, because in the meantime the subjects of the Queen might enjoy the benefit of an edict made by the Protector in great favour of them, which declaration Whitelocke had caused to be delivered to the Chancellor.

To the thirteenth article, as to satisfaction of damages, their debate was to the like effect as formerly.

Upon the sixteenth article they had also debate. Whitelocke desired that the words "de usu littorum in piscatione" might be altered to these words, "de piscatione et usu littorum." They alleged that this would seem to deny their fishing upon their own coasts. Whitelocke said, the other would seem as if England had given up their right as to the fishing, and left all at liberty to those that pleased to take it.

This was the sum of the debate of near three hours. The conclusion was that they would certify the Queen of all these matters, and in short acquaint Whitelocke with her answer; which he desired might be as speedy and positive as they pleased, because if they should reduce him to that necessity, that before he could agree he must send to the Protector to know his pleasure, he could not receive an answer of his letters in less than two months' space, within which time the Queen purposed to resign her government, and then his commission would be at an end. The Chancellor said he desired Whitelocke should be speedily in England, not only for the sake of his wife and children, but likewise because then they could promise themselves that they had a good friend in England.

Whitelocke visited the French Resident, who was very inquisitive what might be the design of the English fleet now at sea; whereunto, as to much other of his discourse, Whitelocke did not much study for answers, only he was careful not to let fall any words which might lessen their amusement about the fleet.

In the evening Woolfeldt visited Whitelocke and discoursed of the same matter; whereof Whitelocke made some use and of this gentleman, to heighten their jealousies about this fleet. Woolfeldt acquainted Whitelocke that the Ambassador of Denmark had made a complaint against him to the Queen, that Woolfeldt had deceived the late King of Denmark of certain sums of money, which he should have disbursed for the late King of England against the Parliament; and that the present King of Denmark having been informed that Woolfeldt had lost his papers at sea, and so could not produce his acquittances, the King took the advantage thereof against Woolfeldt, and now, by his Ambassador, charged him before the Queen for those moneys: but that he disappointed the Danish Ambassador by producing before the Queen his papers and acquittances, which his enemies believed had had been lost; and so was justified before the Queen, to the great discontent of the Ambassador. Whitelocke said he was very glad that Woolfeldt came so well off, and that he perceived the Queen had, by the the treaty, a capacity, as well as by his residence, to examine and do right in such matters.

This day Whitelocke had discourse about Norway and the Sound with a Danish gentleman of great quality and experience whom he had obliged, who desired to have his name concealed; but part of this discourse follows:--

Dane. Now is a good time for the Protector to send some ships towards these parts.

Whitelocke. What places are there in Norway considerable as to the interest of England?

Dane. There are two places in Norway not far from Gothenburg which are easy to be taken, and are excellent harbours, wherein England might keep some ships constantly, and command all that pass by to the Baltic Sea.

Wh. What are the names of those places?

Dane. The one of those havens is called Marstrang; but that I do not like so well because of the Paternoster Rocks, which are very dangerous for coming out if the wind sit northerly, and the fort there is commanded by the hills near it. But the other place, called Flecker Town, is an island, and hath a going-in and coming-out two ways; it is an excellent harbour, and ships may ride in it at such a distance from the land (being a broad water) that none from the land can hurt them. There is a little fort in this island which may easily be taken, not having above forty or fifty men in it, and the works decayed. Those who assail it must land their men on the south-east side of the island, the fort being on the other side, and they may easily be masters of it; and from thence having some ships, they may go in and out at their pleasure, and command all passing by; and none can come into the harbour to them if they make up the fort, which is soon done, and the passage not above musket-shot to be commanded, and there are no guns there of any consideration at this time.

Wh. How shall they do for victuals there to get fresh from the land?

Dane. There is plenty of butter and cheese, sheep and hogs; and the poor country people will be no trouble to you, but be willing to be commanded by you.

Wh. What towns are there near it?

Dane. Higher in the country is Bergen, the chief town for trade there, and rich enough. Your ships may easily come into that harbour, and plunder the town and get a great booty, and return to Fleckeren Town again.

Wh. Is there anything to be done at Iceland?

Dane. I wonder you do not send, in August or September, four or five ships to Iceland, being men-of-war. They may have twenty or thirty Dutch ships, laden with fish, butter, and hides, which will make no resistance at all; and it would be a rich prize, and might be had without danger or difficulty.

Wh. Is the castle of Elsinore so strong a piece that it cannot be taken without much expense and danger?

Dane. This will not be the best design for England: it is a small, strong castle, and doth not signify much; though it be esteemed a piece of importance, it is not so.

Wh. It commands the passage of the Sound.

Dane. Most men believe so, but it is mistaken. I have seen an experiment to the contrary, that a boat, being placed in the middle of that narrow passage of the Sound, they shot at it from the castle of Elsinore, and likewise from the castle of Helsingborg on the other side, with the greatest guns they had, and yet they could not reach the boat from either side by two thousand paces; nor is it so narrow in the passage but that a ship may, when she pleaseth, sail by those castles in despite of them.

Wh. What harbour is there at Elsinore?

Dane. There is no harbour for ships to ride in, and in foul weather they will be in danger to be all lost, because they must ride in the open sea, which there is extreme perilous; and therefore Elsinore is not worth the keeping, if England had it. But their best design would be to go directly to the town of Copenhagen with fifty or sixty good ships, with landsmen in them; and it is easy enough to take that town, for the works of it are not strong, nor is it well guarded, and it would be easier to take that town than Elsinore; and if England were masters of it, the castle would quickly come in to them; and at the town they should have a good haven for their ships, and a small matter would build a better fort near the town than Elsinore is, and would command the passage more than the castles do, and make you masters of the Sound and of all the trade of the Baltic Sea.